Crystal malts

Confused about acid malt? You won't be after you post your malt-related questions here!
Post Reply
sbond10
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2999
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Crystal malts

Post by sbond10 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:47 pm

I've seen a few recipes that call for crystal malt and dark crystal malt.
What values would you expect in terms of ebc does 125 and 240 sound about right. I've seen both ends of the spectrum crystal as low as 30 and as high as 500

BenB

Re: Crystal malts

Post by BenB » Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:26 pm

Good Q and it makes a big difference. Some v useful information here

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=54623

It's always unsettling when it is not possible to get the right type of Crystal as it has an impact on flavour.

sbond10
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2999
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: Crystal malts

Post by sbond10 » Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:42 am

Think I'll go for around 130 ish for normal crystal then I've got carapils in too

User avatar
alix101
Under the Table
Posts: 1786
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:34 am
Location: Chester-le-street Durham

Re: Crystal malts

Post by alix101 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:45 pm

Alot of recipes generated in America call for grain we can't get they seem to have a wider selection on malt colour but you can certainly get somewhere near.
"Everybody should belive in something : and I belive I'll have another drink".

sbond10
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2999
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: Crystal malts

Post by sbond10 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:47 pm

After having a talk with Greg Hughes as there his recipes he said the 130 ebc was fine

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2738
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: Crystal malts

Post by Jocky » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:15 am

Every maltster will produce a slightly different crystal, and with British barley being different from US barley you can bet their crystal will be different again. The best you can do is to compare the EBU (or convert from lovibond - EBU is about 2x at the low end and 3x at the high end).

As a generalisation though, I'd put them with the following EBUs:

Carapils/caragold 10
Caramalt 30
Pale crystal 60
Crystal 130
Dark crystal 240
Extra dark 350
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

sbond10
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2999
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: Crystal malts

Post by sbond10 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:38 am

What flavours does caramalt bring to the table

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2738
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: Crystal malts

Post by Jocky » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:52 pm

sbond10 wrote:What flavours does caramalt bring to the table
Light caramel, with the usual crystal body sweetness.

A bit more flavour than caragold/pils which just adds sweetness really, but less than pale crystal. They all exist on a continuum of flavours.

If you've ever put some sugar in water and heated it to create various forms of solid caramel, crystal malts are much like that. Heat enough to dissolve it and you end up with a clear block of sugar - sweet but no other flavour really. This is your caragold/pils. Heat it a bit more and it starts to go golden as the Maillard reactions happen (caramelisation) and then the flavour starts to develop - syrup at first, then caramel, gradually getting more intense the darker it gets as it gets hotter, progressing through caramel to toffee to burnt toffee.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

BenB

Re: Crystal malts

Post by BenB » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:05 pm

Is special B just a darker normal crystal or something more interesting? I've seen it referenced as "Crystal 150".

rpt
Hollow Legs
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 4:35 pm
Location: Ilkley, West Yorkshire

Re: Crystal malts

Post by rpt » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:05 pm

I think Special B is a crystal malt that's also roasted.

MTW
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 905
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:04 pm
Location: Just outside Scarbados

Re: Crystal malts

Post by MTW » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:25 pm

rpt wrote:I think Special B is a crystal malt that's also roasted.
I think most crystal/caras are roasted to a degree, after being 'mashed', though Special B may be given a second roasting. From Beercolor.com:

"[De Wolf-Cosyns Special B] undergoes a second roasting, resulting in a cross between dark caramel and light-roasted malts, similar to a brown malt." Not sure it looks like any brown malt I've used though :-k

I've used it in a Belgian quad and two stouts, where there may otherwise have been dark crystal. I think I like it, but need more data to confirm!
Busy in the Summer House Brewery

Rookie
Falling off the Barstool
Posts: 3552
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:30 pm
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana

Re: Crystal malts

Post by Rookie » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:21 pm

rpt wrote:I think Special B is a crystal malt that's also roasted.
I've seen other high color crystal malts described as having a roasted edge as well as the normal caramel/toffee flavors.
I'm just here for the beer.

User avatar
PhilB
Piss Artist
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:32 am
Location: South Cheshire

Re: Crystal malts

Post by PhilB » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:09 pm

Hi Ben
BenB wrote:Is special B just a darker normal crystal or something more interesting? I've seen it referenced as "Crystal 150".
... it's always the way ... someone, makes a good set of simplifications to make a nice generalisation to explain something really well, so everyone can get a grasp of it ... just as Jocky did above, Well Done Jocky for that =D> ... and then someone else goes and asks a question about the "exception that breaks the rule", that makes the generalisation look like it's a complete over-simplification :roll: :wink:

In terms of understanding the colour contribution of Special B, for recipe formulation, yes you could treat it as Crystal 150 (or whatever EBC it's been roasted to) ... but to understand what's so "special" about Special B you need to understand the differences between caramel and crystal malts (there's a good explanation there (link)), and then understand that Special B is a (Belgian) caramel malt that has then been roasted (as explained in the Brupak's Guide to Grains (link)) :? ... and that, with the variation in the kilning (caramel malt making process), there will be some grains that go into the roaster full of sugars that crystalise inside the grain, and that come out just like Crystal Malt, and there will be other grains that go into the roaster like a lightly roasted malt (Munich, say) and come out like Brown Malt ... but it's all the grains that are somewhere in between those extremes when they go into the roaster, that bring the flavours to Special B that you'd never get by (just) using half Crystal and half Brown malts :? ... you see, it really is "unique" :?

Hope that helps
Cheers, PhilB

BenB

Re: Crystal malts

Post by BenB » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:23 pm

Interesting! I did suspect it was missed out for a reason.... Every day's a school day :)

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2738
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: Crystal malts

Post by Jocky » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:00 pm

PhilB wrote:Hi Ben
BenB wrote:Is special B just a darker normal crystal or something more interesting? I've seen it referenced as "Crystal 150".
... it's always the way ... someone, makes a good set of simplifications to make a nice generalisation to explain something really well, so everyone can get a grasp of it ... just as Jocky did above, Well Done Jocky for that =D> ... and then someone else goes and asks a question about the "exception that breaks the rule", that makes the generalisation look like it's a complete over-simplification :roll: :wink:

In terms of understanding the colour contribution of Special B, for recipe formulation, yes you could treat it as Crystal 150 (or whatever EBC it's been roasted to) ... but to understand what's so "special" about Special B you need to understand the differences between caramel and crystal malts (there's a good explanation there (link)), and then understand that Special B is a (Belgian) caramel malt that has then been roasted (as explained in the Brupak's Guide to Grains (link)) :? ... and that, with the variation in the kilning (caramel malt making process), there will be some grains that go into the roaster full of sugars that crystalise inside the grain, and that come out just like Crystal Malt, and there will be other grains that go into the roaster like a lightly roasted malt (Munich, say) and come out like Brown Malt ... but it's all the grains that are somewhere in between those extremes when they go into the roaster, that bring the flavours to Special B that you'd never get by (just) using half Crystal and half Brown malts :? ... you see, it really is "unique" :?

Hope that helps
Cheers, PhilB
Awesome information, I've learned quite a lot reading those links, and I'd honestly not looked into what Special B is (I've never used it!).

Personally I try not to vary my sources of grain so I know what I'm getting. You may find inconsistent results if you jump from a medium crystal by one maltster to the same product from another.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

Post Reply