Using cane sugar

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Tensbrewer

Using cane sugar

Post by Tensbrewer » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:47 pm

Hi folks

Really basic question which I'm embarrassed that I don't know the answer to. I am about 1/2 a kilo short of pale malt for a batch of all grain beer that I hope to make tomorrow. Based on typical efficiencies, how much white sugar do I need to add to make up the shortfall?

It'd break my heart to do it, I'm pretty firm on all grain brews but can't see any other options - the only other fermentables I have in the house are bread flour and rice, neither of which seems very plausible or tempting....

Any help appreciated!

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Hanglow
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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Hanglow » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:07 pm

You could just brew it a bit shorter if you want to keep it all malt?

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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Tensbrewer » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:10 pm

Yes, that's gone through my mind too, or wait a week until I get another sack of malt......just discovered the shortfall when I checked the malt supply and the gears all set up in the garage now, so I'll likely go ahead rather than wait. Might opt for the rice option.

wfr42

Re: Using cane sugar

Post by wfr42 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:18 pm

I'm sure there's a calculator somewhere.
Could you brew it as is and then add sugar until you hit your sg (maybe hoping for a better than normal efficiency) or accept a lower sg.

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Dennis King
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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Dennis King » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:35 pm

500gms of sugar will not make any great difference if you want to keep the gravity up.

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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Tensbrewer » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:41 pm

Sounds grand Dennis, so more or less 1:1 cane sugar to missing grain?

BenB

Re: Using cane sugar

Post by BenB » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:06 pm

It looks like cane sugar has the same sg contribution as dme (or near enough). Obviously whole grain doesn't equate to dme so done conversion is needed.

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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Clibit » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:23 pm

About 300g sugar should get you there, it's not 1:1.

You could use DME. If you don't have any, pick some up and add it during fermentation.

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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by orlando » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:07 am

Tensbrewer wrote:
It'd break my heart to do it, I'm pretty firm on all grain brews but can't see any other options -
Cane sugar IS an option. There is a proud and delicious tradition of using cane sugar, typically invert sugar, in British brewing. Some of the finest beers you can buy from the traditional regional breweries use cane sugar. One word of caution is that typical white house hold sugar id usually made from Beet and isn't quite as good once you go over 10% of the grain bill, although Belgian brewers make beer using candied versions. If you can get it try some real cane sugar in a brew, it might surprise you. A lot of home brewers make their own invert sugar, which is easy to do if a little time consuming if you are going for a #3.
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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Bad 'Ed » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:37 am

Apologies for going off topic, but I think Tensbrewer has his answer; I've never understood why some recipes have sugar additions in the region of 200g of sugar in a 5g batch. I imagine it is to lighten the flavour if you don't want the beer to malty, but surely you can't taste the difference between 200g of sugar and the equivalent increase in malt?

What impact does adding sugar to a malt bill have?

Can you really taste a few hundred grams of sugar in the final beer?
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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by orlando » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:44 am

Bad 'Ed wrote:Apologies for going off topic, but I think Tensbrewer has his answer; I've never understood why some recipes have sugar additions in the region of 200g of sugar in a 5g batch. I imagine it is to lighten the flavour if you don't want the beer to malty, but surely you can't taste the difference between 200g of sugar and the equivalent increase in malt?

What impact does adding sugar to a malt bill have?

Can you really taste a few hundred grams of sugar in the final beer?

Depends on the sugar used. Pure sucrose, table sugar, is 100% fermentable so will not leave any residual sweetness or flavour as such. What it does is to help "dry" a beer out. Depending again on how much is used, overuse can give a cidery flavour. Anyone who remembers beer kits in the 70's/80's which asked for a lot of sugar to make the alcohol required knows what I'm talking about. But we are not talking about just beet based table sugar, we are talking about cane sugar. This comes in a number of forms and are often less than 100% fermentable, this can leave some residual sweetness and part of its character in the beer. My own experiments with sugar, particularly invert, is it brings something to a beer that can only be described as lusciousness, with a drier crisper character to it that all malt brews can sometimes fail to deliver. The amount used is important as yeast favour short chain sugars and if they get too much of that they can give up on the longer chain sugars and that can throw the balance of the beer out.

So no, I don't think the OP has his answer quite yet, but if he experiments with sugar, particularly invert he can begin to understand how it can be used to make his beer more complex and interesting. Even if he just primed his bottled stouts with some molasses he would notice a difference in ones he used ordinary table sugar in.
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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Goulders » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:10 am

Sugar drives off nitrogen in the boil (or something like that) as well. Tate & Lyle is usually cane, while Silver Spoon is beet

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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Clibit » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:12 am

I think sugar is particularly useful in stronger beers to prevent them becoming too cloying. But useful in any beer where you want to lighten the body and dry it out a little.

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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Kyle_T » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:05 am

Clibit wrote:I think sugar is particularly useful in stronger beers to prevent them becoming too cloying. But useful in any beer where you want to lighten the body and dry it out a little.
Again, this depends on the sugar being used. If using standard white Cane Sugar the difference will be neglible in the end product if used in an appropriate quantity, darker Cane Sugars like Muscavardo and Brown will alter the colour and the flavour to a degree, Golden Syrup and Molasses can add body, colour and flavour to a beer, the Invert Sugars, especially the darker ones along with Black Treacle will have the biggest impact on beer because of the higher percentage of unfermentable sugar, this also comes with an increase in flavour and colour.
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Re: Using cane sugar

Post by Clibit » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:22 am

I wasn't referring to dark sugars or treacle etc.

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