Post-boil hops

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bitter_dave
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Post-boil hops

Post by bitter_dave » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:55 pm

Hi all,

Hope this is a sensible question!

What is your preferred way of getting the most out of post-boil hops? I'm not talking about quantity, but procedure for getting the best flavour/aroma.

1) Bung them in after switch off, stir, leave 15 mins to soak then cool (sort of Dave Line style?)
2) Cool to below 80c then stir hops in (suggested in the final Wheeler book). Presumably keep cooling after they go in?
3) Boil for 1 min, then cool immediately (not really post-boil, but almost).
4) Some other variant of the above?

Obviously might depend on your cooling device (I've got an immersion chiller).

I'm having to re-learn brewing after a decade away (!), so I'm interested in your views

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gr_baker
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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by gr_baker » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:32 pm

When I had an immersion chiller I used to put the hops in immediately after switching the boiler off and starting the chiller. It used to take 40 minutes to chill to pitching temperature so that's how long the hops were in contact with the beer.

Since I got a Grainfather I haven't made any beers that have flameout hops but my next one will and I'm considering how to approach it. Probably by throwing the hops in when switching the boiler off and leaving things for 30 minutes before running off through the counterflow chiller.

Robwalkeragain
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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by Robwalkeragain » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:04 am

Whirlpool is probably the most resourceful way and guarantees the best flavour. For the traditional beers I brew at work hop selection is much more important than anything else - use low alpha, high aroma hops like ahtanum, bobek and you'll get plenty of aroma out without much bitterness.
All methods are second to dry hopping though, let's be honest!

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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by Meatymc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:38 am

I use no-chill and found adding any hops immediatley after the boil only adds bitterness - not aroma or flavour - obviously as the wort is still 'boiling' effectively.

I now dry hop - trying to catch the very tail end of fermentation or immediatly thereafter, and leave for 2-3 days before removing and chilling pre-bottling. I use my own hops in a muslin bag with the biggest ball-ache being to keep it 'under water'. I don't have anything like a hop basket so rely on stainless steel (santised) weights. A 70g whole hop addition needs a 1lb weight and even then it can 'float'!

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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by bitter_dave » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:36 pm

Thanks folks :)
Robwalkeragain wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:04 am
Whirlpool is probably the most resourceful way and guarantees the best flavour.
So for somebody like me with an immersion chiller that just means stirring it while it is cooling? Presumably to that is make sure the hops come into proper contact with the wort?

Interesting comments about dry hopping; will have to give that another go. I did it a few times in the 'old days', but this was just bunging some cones in the barrel. The one time I remember it working fairly well was with a bitter and twisted clone (dry hopping Styrian Goldings), but I gather it's not considered best practise to add them to the barrel. If I were to add them to the fermenter for a week (after the initial fermentation had done its thing) would that be considered too long?

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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by orlando » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:59 pm

bitter_dave wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:36 pm

Interesting comments about dry hopping; will have to give that another go. I did it a few times in the 'old days', but this was just bunging some cones in the barrel. The one time I remember it working fairly well was with a bitter and twisted clone (dry hopping Styrian Goldings), but I gather it's not considered best practise to add them to the barrel. If I were to add them to the fermenter for a week (after the initial fermentation had done its thing) would that be considered too long?

Dry hopping in cask is excellent practice, just a PITA when it comes to cleaning out afterwards. Best to do this when you still have a degree or so to go before FG. This will ensure the yeast scavenge the O2 clinging to the hops and carbonate all in one. Dry hopping in the fermentor for a week isn't too long but is arguably not going to deliver much more aroma than after 2-3 days.
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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by guypettigrew » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:18 pm

orlando wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:59 pm

Dry hopping in cask is excellent practice, just a PITA when it comes to cleaning out afterwards. Best to do this when you still have a degree or so to go before FG. This will ensure the yeast scavenge the O2 clinging to the hops and carbonate all in one. Dry hopping in the fermentor for a week isn't too long but is arguably not going to deliver much more aroma than after 2-3 days.
Hi Orlando

Are you saying dry hopping in the cask (keg) is the best way to get hop aroma? It's what I do, but most people seem to think dry hopping in the fermenter is better.

Guy

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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by orlando » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:01 pm

guypettigrew wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:18 pm
orlando wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:59 pm

Dry hopping in cask is excellent practice, just a PITA when it comes to cleaning out afterwards. Best to do this when you still have a degree or so to go before FG. This will ensure the yeast scavenge the O2 clinging to the hops and carbonate all in one. Dry hopping in the fermentor for a week isn't too long but is arguably not going to deliver much more aroma than after 2-3 days.
Hi Orlando

Are you saying dry hopping in the cask (keg) is the best way to get hop aroma? It's what I do, but most people seem to think dry hopping in the fermenter is better.

Guy
No, just saying I disagree with the notion it is "not considered best practice". Indeed you can do both if you really want to ramp up the aroma, but just remember that it isn't necessarily what you want for certain Beers.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning: St. Petersburg (RIS)
Drinking: Mild In The Country, Summer Son, White On Blonde, Kernel Bogey (Reprise), Fools Gold
Up Next:
Planning: Summer drinking beer.

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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by LeeH » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Pellets or whole then?

I prefer pellets for dry hopping personally.


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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by orlando » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:59 am

On balance I think pellets are best as they expose the hops to the Beer more. If you want to recover the yeast from the bottom of the FV then baggging pellets or whole hops is a compromise but top cropping and letting the hops "float" free is better. If you have a conical and want to capture the yeast then dump it first before dry hopping, there will still be enough left to scavenge oxygen. I would still suggest purging with some CO2 after opening the FV.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning: St. Petersburg (RIS)
Drinking: Mild In The Country, Summer Son, White On Blonde, Kernel Bogey (Reprise), Fools Gold
Up Next:
Planning: Summer drinking beer.

Robwalkeragain
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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by Robwalkeragain » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:16 am

orlando wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:59 pm
bitter_dave wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:36 pm

Interesting comments about dry hopping; will have to give that another go. I did it a few times in the 'old days', but this was just bunging some cones in the barrel. The one time I remember it working fairly well was with a bitter and twisted clone (dry hopping Styrian Goldings), but I gather it's not considered best practise to add them to the barrel. If I were to add them to the fermenter for a week (after the initial fermentation had done its thing) would that be considered too long?

Dry hopping in cask is excellent practice, just a PITA when it comes to cleaning out afterwards. Best to do this when you still have a degree or so to go before FG. This will ensure the yeast scavenge the O2 clinging to the hops and carbonate all in one. Dry hopping in the fermentor for a week isn't too long but is arguably not going to deliver much more aroma than after 2-3 days.
Agreed. Type 100 pellets exist for this very practice, although not many varieties available.
Pellets for dry hopping for me - crash them out when the cooling goes on, use a Syphon filter to remove them. Easy peasy and bags of aroma

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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by WalesAles » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:26 pm

Meatymc wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:38 am
I use my own hops in a muslin bag with the biggest ball-ache being to keep it 'under water'. I don't have anything like a hop basket so rely on stainless steel (santised) weights. A 70g whole hop addition needs a 1lb weight and even then it can 'float'!
Meaty,
When you next go to Dunelm or Wilkos, etc, look for these.....
https://www.dunelm.com/search/decorative+glass+beads
Buy 2 bags, just in case you have a `Floater`.
I`ve used one of these on 100gr Hop Leaf and never a problem.
Try your local toy shop for bags of marbles.
Don`t boil them to sterilise them (I did), they tend to crack and splinter.
Go on then, ask MrsMeaty if she fancies a browse around Dunelm because you are bored and fancy a day out! =D>

WA

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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by LeeH » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:33 pm

Thanks Orlando, good info.


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Meatymc
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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by Meatymc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:25 pm

[/quote]
Meaty,
When you next go to Dunelm or Wilkos, etc, look for these.....
https://www.dunelm.com/search/decorative+glass+beads
Buy 2 bags, just in case you have a `Floater`.
I`ve used one of these on 100gr Hop Leaf and never a problem.
Try your local toy shop for bags of marbles.
Don`t boil them to sterilise them (I did), they tend to crack and splinter.
Go on then, ask MrsMeaty if she fancies a browse around Dunelm because you are bored and fancy a day out! =D>
WA
[/quote]

Cheers Wales although I think I'll give the Dunelm shopping trip with the wife a miss!!

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HTH1975
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Re: Post-boil hops

Post by HTH1975 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:32 pm

I just do the same as we do at work - heat off, final hops in, let stand for 30 mins before chilling/casting.

I’ve found I get good aroma/flavour this way.

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