Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

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orlando
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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by orlando » Sat May 18, 2013 7:18 am

CharlieTwoPies wrote:
Also, never knew Brewdog were such ardent users of NS. Is that where all the f*****g supplies of it disappear to every year!?
Ahtanum is the one we miss out on most, though we probably can't blame them completely.
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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by Befuddler » Sat May 18, 2013 1:27 pm

Last year's NS crop did have a 'tarmaccy' note. Personally, I really like it.
"There are no strong beers, only weak men"

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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by CharlieTwoPies » Mon May 27, 2013 3:18 pm

So, yesterday I took a pint out of the primary as I was transferring to secondary and gave it a little taste, content as I was that the yeast had done all of its hard work for me.

Beautiful. Punchy and fruity and mouth-puckering in the bitterness; just how I remember it (although not quite as clean/crisp due I imagine to being taken from the primary and yet to be dry hopped). I can safely say that it was lovely.

In all honesty, though this may sound like a awkward remark, I don't exactly know what a 'tarmaccy' note would be, I've never really had that much experience tasting tarmac or tarmac-like items, and I can infer nothing from the smell or essence of tarmac.

I guess, as many have pointed out, NS is just a divisive hop character that subjectively is unpleasant to some and pleasant to others, and I fall on the pleasant side of the line.

Having said that, after dry hopping there is a slightly odd whiff about the secondary fermenter..... probably nowt to worry about

happy drinking!

CharlieTwoPies

Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by CharlieTwoPies » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:54 pm

Hi all,

Thought I would return to this one after being reminded of some questions and queries I had that I voiced on here by drinking through some old stocks of my Nelson IPA. I have been experimenting with a fair few NS single hop brews now and I think that I have come to a conclusion regarding the character of NS.

Personally I think NS is actually not good for flavour additions (i.e 30mins). It comes out with a (I remember somebody using the word 'tarmaccy') slightly astringent and aggressive resiny-ness that isn't in line with desirable resin-y characteristics. Some people like a tartness, I know (as do I) but it just doesn't quite work as this just isn't what that is.

It does have a delicious bittering character (i.e when used as first wort, 90min or 60min additions), it is rounded and fruity; and the aroma additions of Nelson I think lend the beer an absolutely beautifully floral, gooseberry, grape, and elderflower bouquet.

But stay away from the flavour additions is the advice I have given myself for my subsequent Nelson IPA recipes.

My best recipes have deifinitely featured higher 15 and 10 min (and dry) additions and less (if any) by way of 30 min additions

I would possibly suggest using a two hop hopping schedule, in which one bitters with both chosen hops, flavours with the other (i.e not NS) hop, and then aroma and dry hops with NS.

Really fresh, grassy, spicy Goldings would be a beautiful partner I believe, and if it wasn't a pure NS nose you were going for then heavy-handed use of Goldings in the aroma additions alongside the NS would be god too. My Opinion.

But generally speaking, something with a clean bitterness if you were to use it alongside the 90 min addition, and a clean, floral (probably not citrus) flavour profile. Maybe Hallertau Mittlefruh would be a worthwhile consideration as a bedfellow for it.

...I seem to be getting caught up in an old meets new world fusion here.

hmmm..... a recipe and name idea has just struck me.

Anyway, don't know if anybody will bother returning to this but thought I'd throw this out into the ether.

With regards to water treatment, the relatively extreme alkalinity of my water means I just use a CRS as standard to meet prescribed ideals for particular styles (can be researched easily with a quick nod to Dr. Google) and that seems to work for me.

Remember everybody, the most important part of the beer is always a nice, clean, adequately-pitched amount, healthy, happy, kept-at-the-right-temperature fermentation. Without it, the beer is poo poo

Cheers and happy brewing

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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by soupdragon » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:08 am

I have some Nelson Sauvin left so might try skipping the 30 min addition myself. Got my next 3 brews planned but I might slip a Nelson in somewhere :)

Cheers Tom

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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by orlando » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:02 am

Well I will come back on this. Thanks a lot a very good insight to your experience. Particularly as I have a NS brew scheduled and was putting a recipe together for it. I have them as bittering and 10 and 5 minutes, so follows your advice so will stick to it.ascade, trying to layer the citrusy notes. Thanks again.
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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by Dave S » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:57 am

I'm planning a NS blonde tomorrow, and have no 30 min additions. I do have 15, 5 and 0 additions though, which brings me to a question I was intending to post in the Grain forum. I guess here will do. With the flame-out steep I read frequently that this should be done at around 80ish C for 30 mins. How does this fit with the cooling sequence? Do you cool to 80C then let the hops steep for 30, then continue cooling? It's the only way that makes any sense, but what effect does that have on the cold break?
Best wishes

Dave

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orlando
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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by orlando » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:05 am

Dave S wrote:I'm planning a NS blonde tomorrow, and have no 30 min additions. I do have 15, 5 and 0 additions though, which brings me to a question I was intending to post in the Grain forum. I guess here will do. With the flame-out steep I read frequently that this should be done at around 80ish C for 30 mins. How does this fit with the cooling sequence? Do you cool to 80C then let the hops steep for 30, then continue cooling? It's the only way that makes any sense, but what effect does that have on the cold break?
Typically you cool to 80c and then add the hops, the idea being this is low enough to not have the oil flash off too much and high enough to combat bacteria in the hops.What I do is cool to 80c put the hops in and just carry on cooling, I use a plate chiller and recirculate into the boiler. I then stop cooling around 30c and let everything settle for 30 minutes to allow the copper finings to do their thing. I then continue chilling but this time running off into the fermentor. This method effectively leaves most of the cold break in the boiler but inevitably a little comes through but that doesn't seem to matter in my view.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning:
Drinking: Southwold Again,

Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by Dave S » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:40 pm

orlando wrote:
Dave S wrote:I'm planning a NS blonde tomorrow, and have no 30 min additions. I do have 15, 5 and 0 additions though, which brings me to a question I was intending to post in the Grain forum. I guess here will do. With the flame-out steep I read frequently that this should be done at around 80ish C for 30 mins. How does this fit with the cooling sequence? Do you cool to 80C then let the hops steep for 30, then continue cooling? It's the only way that makes any sense, but what effect does that have on the cold break?
Typically you cool to 80c and then add the hops, the idea being this is low enough to not have the oil flash off too much and high enough to combat bacteria in the hops.What I do is cool to 80c put the hops in and just carry on cooling, I use a plate chiller and recirculate into the boiler. I then stop cooling around 30c and let everything settle for 30 minutes to allow the copper finings to do their thing. I then continue chilling but this time running off into the fermentor. This method effectively leaves most of the cold break in the boiler but inevitably a little comes through but that doesn't seem to matter in my view.
OK, thanks Orlando. That all seems to make sense.
Best wishes

Dave

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Re: Nelson Sauvin and water treatment

Post by mozza » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:09 pm

Belter wrote:Awesome thanks! Did you grow your EKG in east Kent?


Are you only down for the weekend?

That was the plan although No-one else seemed to be replying. It's my Niece's birthday (Matt12398's daughter) party that weekend so I'll have a chat with him as he was coming too. It may end up just being us three in which case it makes sense to go to the Rashleigh?
I might be able to swing by :)
Cheers and gone,

Mozza

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