goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

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john luc
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goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by john luc » Sun May 10, 2015 9:14 pm

I was at our national homebrew conference at the weekend which was a wonderful success and was a credit to those who organised it. At the conference the man from charles Faram told us of the hop industry and its shotages but the bombshell was the end of tradional Fuggle hops by 5 years. Disease is destroying it.
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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by Piscator » Sun May 10, 2015 9:28 pm

:cry: :cry: That's terrible news :cry: :cry:

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by JamesF » Sun May 10, 2015 9:39 pm

What disease(s) are we talking about here?

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by YeastWhisperer » Mon May 11, 2015 3:34 am

You just ruined my day. UK Fuggle is one of my favorite hops.

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by Jim » Mon May 11, 2015 8:43 am

Downy mildew and verticillium wilt.
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john luc
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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by john luc » Mon May 11, 2015 11:58 am

The verticillium wilt is the big killer one because he said that once it gets in it stays in the soil so you can't replant new Fuggle rhizomes. New planting is going on in Alsace and although it would be the same plant the soil will in time change it. I have a Fuggle plant that has being neglected and quite a few at the conference said the same. We concluded that we see a black market in trading Fuggle hop rhizomes in the future :idea:
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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by YeastWhisperer » Mon May 11, 2015 8:59 pm

Willamette has slightly improved verticillium wilt resistance, but I doubt that it would withstand being planted in severely infected soil.

With that said, a bit of advice that my that my propagator of choice shared with me was to never use hardwood mulch in my hop yard. Many hardwood species are susceptible to verticllium wilt, and mulch is made from healthy and diseased trees. The heat that is generated by composting is supposed to denature the plant pathogens, but I am not taking any chances.

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by seymour » Sun May 17, 2015 4:19 pm

YeastWhisperer wrote:Willamette has slightly improved verticillium wilt resistance, but I doubt that it would withstand being planted in severely infected soil.

With that said, a bit of advice that my that my propagator of choice shared with me was to never use hardwood mulch in my hop yard. Many hardwood species are susceptible to verticllium wilt, and mulch is made from healthy and diseased trees. The heat that is generated by composting is supposed to denature the plant pathogens, but I am not taking any chances.
Good tip, YeastWhisperer. I tried and failed to grow Fuggles, 3 or 4 years in a row with new allegedly disease free rhizomes each time, into different spots which I was sure were healthy soil. But I do sometimes use hardwood mulch, some of which I know wasn't fully hot-composted yet, so maybe that was a culpit. I know I don't possess the best latitude for growing Fuggles, but my problem was bigger than that. I grow other UK cultivars well.

I agree with the black market and home-grown comments. Historic Fuggles no longer being grown commercially will be a devastating hit--don't get me wrong--but that is not the same as saying it will cease to exist as a cultivar. It's up to you guys now, power to the people!

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by scuppeteer » Mon May 18, 2015 8:56 pm

The mulch says something about what you should use as a fertiliser. As you know in the old days the only thing available was manure. Dug into the ground during late Autumn/winter it provided the best nutrients for growth. Probably why in its day, Fuggles accounted for something like 65% of all hop gardens in England. The use of modern fertilisers probably don't help as they are sprayed on rather than disturbing the soil. It won't disappear just probably become much more expensive. I know a very good farmer who has a cultivar which ripens early and the quality of the crop is excellent. This may just be its saviour from extinction.
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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by YeastWhisperer » Wed May 20, 2015 2:14 am

Dave, that's an interesting perspective. Many of the heirloom cultivars that we grow today were selected under very different farming practices.

My neighbor has sheep. He has offered me free access to his sheep manure pile.

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goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by Rogermort » Sat May 23, 2015 6:01 pm

My wife is a professional gardener. We live in an area (Rutland) that as far as I know doesn't grow hops. If she wants to grow Fuggles hops, where could I buy a 'clean' plant from?

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by Clibit » Wed May 27, 2015 1:45 pm

What do people think of Progress as a replacement for Fuggles? Which I think it was intended to be.

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by seymour » Wed May 27, 2015 2:03 pm

I LOVE Progress hops, but they're pretty unique from Fuggles. In my experience, the flavour profiles of Keyworth hops are much closer replacements.

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by Clibit » Wed May 27, 2015 3:42 pm

Pretty unique? What does that mean? ;-)

So Keyworth are very similar to Fuggles? Quite similar? A close replacement?

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Re: goodbye Fuggle it was nice knowing you

Post by seymour » Wed May 27, 2015 10:36 pm

Clibit wrote:Pretty unique? What does that mean? ;-)

So Keyworth are very similar to Fuggles? Quite similar? A close replacement?
Well, taste is very subjective. Other members will disagree with my following analysis, and their impressions will be as valid as mine, so take it or leave it. But to me, Fuggles hops exhibit those timeless English traits: earthy, a little flowery, a little woodsy, with some herbal tea notes, light honey, just a hint of black pepper spice and healthy leaf compost essence. This overly poetic summary will strike some as ridiculous, but stay with me: perfume of our planet. The distilled essence of The Garden of England. Right? Rolling your eyes yet? Compared to other hops, Fuggles is smooth, well-balanced, almost "noble". Compared to Goldings or newer hops, Fuggles is not especially fruity, not especially citrusy, not especially resiny.

Progress hops strike me as still recognizably English, possessing much of that Fuggly perfume I just described, definitely spicier, fruitier, with stronger whiffs of cedar wood or pine resin. Not to the woodsy/weedy extent of Bramling Cross or Marynka, but heading in that direction. Not as mustardy as Flyer, but sometimes a whiff. Northern Brewer is cleaner and cool mintier, but reminds me a little of Progress in other ways. Not as resiny as Phoenix or Pilgrim, but getting there. Progress is not as smooth as Fuggles but vastly smoother than Target, Bullion, or even Northdown, for instance. I'm struggling to find a perfect comparison for Progress hops, because like I said, I find them very unique. Still English, but uniquely English.

I've said it before: I think a Challenger/Progress combo produces a sorta Super-Goldings/Super-Fuggles effect.

Yes, I think Keyworth hops are a much closer replacement for Fuggles. I know, I know…I'm just an arrogant American, but I guzzle every English beer I can get my hands on, and my favourite local brewery The Civil Life uses copious amounts of fresh, climate-controlled, English-grown Fuggles, whose beers I critique at every stage in the process, so I'm pretty sure my taste buds are attuned. There are actually two distinct varieties: Keyworth Early-Season and a Keyworth Mid-Season. I've brewed several beers with Keyworth Mid, which seem very Fuggly to me. I made the beer and knew what went in, but I can honestly say if handed the beer blind, I would've said Fuggles. In my recent Festival Mild, I used Keyworth Mid and East Kent Goldings to ≈30 IBU and I swear it smells and tastes exactly like a classic Fuggles and Goldings brew. I'm as sad as you about Fuggles' agronomic problems, REALLY, but Keyworth Mid is at least something to try cheating into recipes, if need be.

A quick aside: Flyer/Keyworth Mid is a killer combo for Foreign Extra Stout…knocks the socks off the ol' Target/Northern Brewer combo.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

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