Loss of flavour

[Tensbrewer]

HI there

I have been making batches of IPA recently and increasing the rates of dry hop addition. This has given great results at first tasting say after 4 weeks in the bottle but after just a couple of months in the bottle, the character seems to have gone and I'm left with a harshness. This has been most recently evident with an Amarillo SMASH. Is it the Amarillo, or something else, is it a water issue, I don't do any water treatment, a friend advised to try using lactic acid in the mash and sparge water to reduce the carbonates? Any other ideas?

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Those hop aroma compound s are very susceptible to O2 damage, and a lot of other factors.

Big hop character is generally most stable in a keg, but you should plan for a short shelf life with a big hop aroma beer.

[Tensbrewer]

So I am guessing I can save myself a lot of cash and throttle back on the dry hopping. The processes that kill the big aroma, presumably are turning that nice aroma into something less nice and that what I am detecting as harshness - would that likely be correct? Do you think there'd still be value in looking at lactic or citric acid water treatment as a means of improving hop flavour?

[jaroporter]

couldn't say if it's a water issue without knowing what's in your water, but obviously if you can brew a lower-hopped beer without this problem then that's going to be a clue? also, what sort of IPA? grainbill? OG/FG? how many (and what) boil hops and dryhops? process?

at a guess it's likely as TheSumOfAllBeers says above, and that as the fruity hop flavours are reduced and damaged you are noticing the other effects of hopping. but without knowing anything about your beers it's little more than a guess.

[Tensbrewer]

The Amarillo batch was 9 gallons, grain bill: 9kg Pale, 0.5kg Oats 0.3kg Wheat. Hopping: 108g Challenger at hot break, 18g Challenger with 15 mins of the boil left plus 68g Amarillo at flameout. Dry hopped with 130g of Amarillo hop pellets 4 days before bottling. OG was 1.056 FG 1.012

I do a lot of beers with those sorts of characteristics although normally with maybe 40% less dry hops.

[scuppeteer]

To be honest, in my experience that is not enough hops at flame out for the brew length. I, on average, have 3 or 4 times the amount you've added. A bigger addition late rather than all that at the beginning of the boil will improve the hop profile. Don't forget dry hopping and flame out additions are more aroma based than overall flavour.
For example a typical hoppy beer of mine would have say 20-30g @ 60mins, 50-80g @ 10-15mins and up to 300g at flame out. NB this is the same brew length as yours so 9-10 gallons.
You should really look at water treatment as well, as this will aid all aspects of your brewing and improve the quality overall.

[Tensbrewer]

Thanks for that scuppeteer, I guess I imagined I was going to get more out of the hops by dry hopping rather than in the kettle but given recent experience I will use more in the kettle and less for dry hopping. I have ordered water analysis reports from my water company today....

[scuppeteer]

Steep hopping I think provides a better aroma as well. Cool the wort after flame out to around 65-70C then put in more, I usually add up to another 100g, depending on the hops and beer and leave for 20mins before continuing to cool to pitching temp.