step up starter

[Secla]

Im brewing my first big beer (around 10%) and as a nother first im also going to use liquid yeast
According to mr malty im going to need a 3l starter ! so im going to need to do it in a few steps. Im planning to do the steps a litre at a time,
I have watched a few you tube videos on starters and im going to do 1 litre to start with then step up to 2/3, my question is once the starter has fermented out can i chill, pour off the wort leaving the cake and then add the next litre and start again ? so im not actually going to have 3 litres at the end but the yeast has fermented in a total of 3 litres ?

hope that makes sense

[MTW]

It's good to be moving up to liquid. That's not a good way to do it though! You're not growing yeast after the fist step, by putting it in the same amount again, you're just training what you've got to be lazy.

Each step should be 5 to 10 times the last. For 20 or so litres of 1.085ish beer, something like a 700ml 1.040 first step (chilled after high kraeusen and decanted), and a 3.5L second (chill, and decant on brewday, restarting with some fresh wort from the boil and pitch). Some will say that the first step is too small there; some will think it overkill, but I'd say it's in the ball park, and certainly better than what you suggested! 3 one litres does not equal one 3L in starter terms!

[Secla]

Right so if I go straight from 1-3 and the final starter actually has to be 3 litres !
I was considering a stir plate but most of the reasonably priced ones only work for up to 1l !
I was planning on decanting and adding to a portion of my stout wort to pitch so at least I got that bit right

[MTW]

Right so if I go straight from 1-3 and the final starter actually has to be 3 litres !
I was considering a stir plate but most of the reasonably priced ones only work for up to 1l !
I was planning on decanting and adding to a portion of my stout wort to pitch so at least I got that bit right

Well the online calculators will generate some sort of guesstimate in terms of cell counts, but stepping up by 5 to 10x is the important bit I think, maintaining a balance of 'growth' and 'health/vitality' in the yeast. It may be worth plugging your numbers into something like the Brewer's Friend calculator, but keep the 5 - 10 thing in mind, and the fact that you want healthy, unstressed yeast, in well oxygenated wort each time.

My stir plate hasn't seen action for some time. I tend to do a 1 to 2L 'shaken-not-stirred' starter for anything under (say) 1.070. Any bigger now, and I'd either do the first 700-1000ml on the stirplate (or S-n-S) and the rest in a DJ or 5L Ashbeck bottle, shaken as much as possible. It's been a while since I did a big beer, but the 700-3500ml regime used to work well for me in tripels.

[Secla]

ok ive been looking at stir plates and flasks but as you get up to 3-4l things start to get expensive

[McMullan]

You could brew a session strength beer then collect sufficient yeast from that to pitch into your big beer.

[Secla]

Probably something to look at in the future ! Bit more research to do on that !

[rpt]

Whenever I want to brew a very strong beer I always do a session beer first and collect the yeast from that. It's effectively a super sized starter, but a tasty one.
I was reading an article yesterday (on the Maltose Falcons website) that suggested you could step up by a factor of 100 not just 10, so perhaps stepped starters aren't always necessary.

[MTW]

Whenever I want to brew a very strong beer I always do a session beer first and collect the yeast from that. It's effectively a super sized starter, but a tasty one.
I was reading an article yesterday (on the Maltose Falcons website) that suggested you could step up by a factor of 100 not just 10, so perhaps stepped starters aren't always necessary.

Are you referring tothis article? If I understand it correctly, the only steps over 8x (in their diagrams) are the ones stepping up from laboratory media. The later steps, ie anything after the equivalent of the OP's (presumed) whitelabs/wyeast vial, are limited to 8x. But maybe you're citing something else. Would be good to read if so.

If nothing else, too big a jump gives bacteria chance to outgrow the yeast, seeing that it multiplies up to 6 times as fast.

[McMullan]

Bacteria do multiply quicker than yeast. However, the most vulnerable step would be the first, when yeast might not be in the best condition and an extended lag phase is observed. Assuming a successful first step, subsequent steps would progress quite rapidly, overwhelming any significant bacterial growth. 10x steps work fine.

[j444fog]

An alternative to stir plates is the 'shaken not stirred method' (search for yeast whisperer on this forum) which some would argue outperforms a stir plate at extremely low cost - all that's required is a large starter vessel (which you need anyway) a good shake (not sheik or for the Frank Zappa fans on forum Sheik Yer Booty), and stringent hygiene and sanitation procedures.

[Secla]

Il check it out thanks, all supply's hopefully get delivered tomorrow so il get a yeast starter going ready for a brew day between Xmas and new year