WLP001 'Next Gen'

[guypettigrew]

In a post back in November I queried the price rise for the 'Next Gen' liquid yeasts from Whitelabs. A big price rise 'justified' by a big increase in the number of yeast cells per sachet. One of the selling points was this number of cells is the accepted commercial pitch rate and ensures a quick starting fermentation.

A week or so ago I used a sachet of the 'Next Gen' WLP001 in a 23L brew. No starter, best before date given as 26 April 2023. Just over three months from now.

The beer produced bubbles through the blow off tube after 5-6 hours and was fermenting vigorously within 24 hours.

Two days ago I started 23L of cider using a fresh sachet of WLP775. The old style sachet with the smaller amount of yeast. No starter, best before date given as 2 April 2023. Just under three months from now.

Guess what? The cider produced bubbles through the blow off tube after 5-6 hours and was fermenting vigorously within 24 hours!

Both have now been harvested for future brews and I'll be making starters for both.

The only advantage I can find of the 'Next Gen' yeast over the old one is the pack opens more easily--screw top rather than cutting.

Does this justify the 55% price increase? No, not in my opinion.

Guy

[IPA]

Guy. A few years ago the exchange rate pound/dollar was two dollars for a quid. When I was a child it was four dollars for a quid. This is one of the reasons why products from the States are so expensive. The other reason is that UK retailers are puttlng huge mark ups on their buying costs due to transportation prices,import tax etc. With yeast I know that you reuse it many times so each time you halve the cost. I have a sample of WLP037 that I bought ten years ago and have reused at least ten times. It cost me about six quid. The second time I used it it effectively cost three quid the third time 1.50 then 0.75 and so on.
I notice how prices are rising in England due to exchange rates. 25 kilos of pale malt in Europe start at 28 Euros. Compare that to UK prices. But on the other hand hops are far more expensive in Europe as are food prices.
For example here in France a 1.5 kilo fresh free range chicken costs 15 Euros. Plus you cannot buy frozen ones.
But to go back to your original point. Yeast suppliers are always finding a way to increase their profit. WhiteLab changed the original packaging from a solid tube to a plastic envelope and now they are trying to con us into thinking their"New"and more expensive yeast is far superior.
Sorry to waffle on in this reply but I completely agree with what you said.
Ian

[MashBag]

I think lots of folks are using any excuse to up there prices..... Except tesla it seems.

[borischarlton]

This a really interesting one. If WL were producing both types of packaging then I think that the smaller volume pouches would be more popular on a price basis. Trouble is, the only way we can buy 001 is now in the new, larger packaging. As for pricing, what has been said above doesn't really stack up. You can see a problem incoming when yeast that is imported from the states with all associated costs, is being sold cheaper in the UK than it is in the States. That same 001 that we have listed for £13.95 is $16.99 ( inc. Ice pack )at MoreBeer. With current exchange rates that is over £14.20.

We do have a few answers to the rising costs of yeast that we will be released over the next month or so, should be really good;)

[FUBAR]

We do have a few answers to the rising costs of yeast that we will be released over the next month or so, should be really good;)

That's intriguing Rob , the suspense will be killing us now ! .

[guypettigrew]

This a really interesting one. If WL were producing both types of packaging then I think that the smaller volume pouches would be more popular on a price basis. Trouble is, the only way we can buy 001 is now in the new, larger packaging. As for pricing, what has been said above doesn't really stack up. You can see a problem incoming when yeast that is imported from the states with all associated costs, is being sold cheaper in the UK than it is in the States. That same 001 that we have listed for £13.95 is $16.99 ( inc. Ice pack )at MoreBeer. With current exchange rates that is over £14.20.

We do have a few answers to the rising costs of yeast that we will be released over the next month or so, should be really good;)

Thanks for that Rob.

The real question is why Chris at WhiteLabs decided to make the change. There appears to be no advantage to the home brewer with the larger pack. As my earlier post shows, both the old and new size packs perform equally well when pitched into a brew straight from the sachet.

Developing the new 'Next Gen' packaging must have cost Whitelabs a ton of money. Perhaps the old packaging could no longer be sourced, so 'Next Gen' was the only way to go. Who knows? Certainly WhiteLabs won't tell us. All the other yeasts in the range will shortly be packaged as 'Next Gen', apparently. Makes me feel as though I'm being taken for a ride.

Maybe in the States no one harvests the yeast. Just a guess.

Brewlabs is looking increasingly attractive.

Guy

[Jocky]

The real question is why Chris at WhiteLabs decided to make the change. There appears to be no advantage to the home brewer with the larger pack. As my earlier post shows, both the old and new size packs perform equally well when pitched into a brew straight from the sachet.

Developing the new 'Next Gen' packaging must have cost Whitelabs a ton of money. Perhaps the old packaging could no longer be sourced, so 'Next Gen' was the only way to go. Who knows? Certainly WhiteLabs won't tell us. All the other yeasts in the range will shortly be packaged as 'Next Gen', apparently. Makes me feel as though I'm being taken for a ride.

Maybe in the States no one harvests the yeast. Just a guess.

Brewlabs is looking increasingly attractive.

Guy

I can only imagine that they're trying to fight back against the new entrants into the market like Imperial who are offering you more yeast for your money. White Labs can also say that they're packaging is the most sanitary too, as you can just remove the cap and bung it in, instead of having to use scissors/sanitise the outside of the pack.

I don't think that either is worth an extra £5 over the old packaging.

I would also like to see Brewlab slopes more available. If they had an equivalent of Wyeast 1056 I would certainly be all over that.

[Eric]

I would also like to see Brewlab slopes more available. If they had an equivalent of Wyeast 1056 I would certainly be all over that.

1056.jpg (86.69 KiB) Viewed 2344 times

Why not use one from Brewlab, but brew with 40% rice and mash at pH 6.2 and boil without copper finings? Should get the same outcome.

[IPA]

I would also like to see Brewlab slopes more available. If they had an equivalent of Wyeast 1056 I would certainly be all over that.

1056.jpg

Why not use one from Brewlab, but brew with 40% rice and mash at pH 6.2 and boil without copper finings? Should get the same outcome.

A couple of tablespoons of plain flour in the boil would also help.

[Jocky]

Not sure what you're getting at, but it's not a yeast for 'hazy' beers. I've never had to filter it, Brewbrite has always done the work for me.

It's just incredibly neutral, and accentuates hops and malt. It's also reliably fast and alcohol tolerant - I've used it for everything from a 3.5% lager to a 12% triple IPA, and a number of dark beers too. The 3.5% lager won a gold medal, and I'm sure you'll be amused that it had 20% rice in it.

[Jocky]

Back on the subject at hand, reading this web page there does seem to be some reasoning behind the new packaging: https://www.whitelabs.com/news-update-detail?id=93

we have seen that yeast stays highly viable (over 90% on average) for up to 7 months from date of production release!

With double the cell count and high viability it starts making the idea of no longer doing starters possible.

[guypettigrew]

Back on the subject at hand, reading this web page there does seem to be some reasoning behind the new packaging: https://www.whitelabs.com/news-update-detail?id=93

we have seen that yeast stays highly viable (over 90% on average) for up to 7 months from date of production release!

With double the cell count and high viability it starts making the idea of no longer doing starters possible.

But starters would still be needed for subsequent brews from the harvested yeast.

I remain unimpressed, but willing to have my mind changed!

Guy

[Eric]

OK Jocky, point taken, my chosen ale yeast won't make beer anything like a Gold Medal lager. I've not tried it to make a 12% beer either and somehow doubt it would, although the 6.5% Dark Christmas Ale turned out very well, but wasn't neutral enough for today's medal placings. Just lots of fruitcake and other non-neutral tastes.

[Jocky]

I'm sure your Christmas Ale was delicious Eric.

[IPA]

I have just read the blurb for this Next Gen yeast. WhiteLab say use one for each 19 ltres of wort. I brew in 57 litre batches. Do they really expect me to pay nearly £42 for each batch !