lid on Lid off

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tourer
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lid on Lid off

Post by tourer » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:29 pm

I know the informed wisdom is to remove the lid when boilng wort but i have a hole cut into my lid with positive extraction of the steam and out of the shed. If i lift the lid no steam escapes and is exhausted by the fan. Would this system be as good as boiling with the lid off? I've used this method for a long time and always think should i remove the lid. I woud rather not as the shed would fill with steam and the roof/walls are not sterile. Your opinions would be apreciated.

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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by wolfenrook » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:20 am

tourer wrote:I know the informed wisdom is to remove the lid when boilng wort but i have a hole cut into my lid with positive extraction of the steam and out of the shed. If i lift the lid no steam escapes and is exhausted by the fan. Would this system be as good as boiling with the lid off? I've used this method for a long time and always think should i remove the lid. I woud rather not as the shed would fill with steam and the roof/walls are not sterile. Your opinions would be apreciated.
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Eric
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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by Eric » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:25 am

What you describe would seem to be similar to that used commercially and I can't visualise any problem provided you boil for a suitable duration.
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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by JonA » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:26 pm

Eric wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:25 am
What you describe would seem to be similar to that used commercially and I can't visualise any problem provided you boil for a suitable duration.
Exactly, I would say you have a system which is in many ways superior to just leaving the lid off. I think my wife would definitely agree as I boil up in the kitchen (with the lid off) :D

May I ask what type of fan and pipe you use that can handle the steam?
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Jim
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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by Jim » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:09 pm

Ah, I've missed the lid on/ off threads recently! ;)

I would say the important thing is that the steam coming off doesn't condense and fall back in the wort.
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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by basswulf » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:48 pm

There was a recent Brulosophy experiment where they compared 60 and 180 minute boil times. Efforts were made to end up with the same volume of boiled wort by making the three hour batch large enough to cope with the additional loss due to evaporation and hit the same gravity reading... and the results were not strongly distinguishable. That seems to confirm my suspicion that a key part of boiling is reducing and concentrating the wort a bit and that other factors, like extracting flavour from the hops, sterilising and stopping all the enzymatic reactions happen in a relatively short time frame.

.... and that, in your case, as long as you are venting off the steam it probably doesn't make any difference whether you do it with an open lid or a closed extraction system. Avoiding drips from the shed roof sounds like a good plan though!

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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by nastyphoenix » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:06 pm

It really depends on the size of the hole, but I would think this is absolutely fine. Commercial breweries normally have a flue of about 3 inches in size on a lid of about 1.2m. That allows for sufficient extraction. So scale that down to home brew levels and you're OK
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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by MTW » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:37 am

I take it off for the last 40 mins or so.
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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by tourer » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:12 pm

JonA wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:26 pm
Eric wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:25 am
What you describe would seem to be similar to that used commercially and I can't visualise any problem provided you boil for a suitable duration.
Exactly, I would say you have a system which is in many ways superior to just leaving the lid off. I think my wife would definitely agree as I boil up in the kitchen (with the lid off) :D

May I ask what type of fan and pipe you use that can handle the steam?
My system is very Heath Robinson, I cleaned/scrubbed sterilised a 2 foot piece of black plastic rain pipe, fitted a Y piece to the pipe as the air flow goes out through the 2 foot pipe to pull steam out of the boiler. I cut the Y piece at an angle so it sits flat on top of a hole in the lid and the 2 foot pipe going through the shed wall (it doesn't go through the roof). Now this is the really technical bit :lol: the fan was taken from a hair dryer yes a hair dryer (strip the fan out of the dryer first). These fans are 12 volt so almost any inverter will run them and i can confirm they are powerful enough to do the job. I have only seen the odd wisp of steam escape. The fan is fitted at the back of the Y piece so it blows across the part which leads down to the boiler thereby sucking/pulling the steam out as the air passes over it and no it doesn't push the steam back into the boiler. I have used this system for years without problems. I'll see if i can take a picture it may be useful to somebody.
I boil for no less than 60 minutes, just leave it to do it's thing.
the pipe is about 2.5 inches across.
Jim i would think it's almost imposible to stop some drips going back into the wort as when the steam hits the lid it will condence as the lid is cooler.

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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by Ceedee » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:49 pm

Would really appreciate a photo of this as I'm struggling with the same issue myself and just cannot picture your solution

Thanks!

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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by Carnot » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:00 pm

Tourer,

You beat me to the comment. I like your idea very much as I would not rate the chance of a motor - fan lasting long in a 100 deg C saturated water vapour stream. Using your eductor method would ensure that the vapour is extracted and you are not blowing air over the wort as a forced draught system would . The induced draught method would definitely be my choice. So far I have boiled my wort outside but this is less than ideal and the next step it to go the way you describe. I was thinking of using a knackered heat gun- same principle.

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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by Jim » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:24 pm

tourer wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:12 pm
..........Jim i would think it's almost imposible to stop some drips going back into the wort as when the steam hits the lid it will condence as the lid is cooler.
We're slightly at cross purposes here. I didn't mean absolutely no drip-back, which is probably as you say impossible with any kind of extraction system. I just meant kept to a minimum and with most of the steam having an opportunity to escape.
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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by tourer » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:57 pm

Ceedee wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:49 pm
Would really appreciate a photo of this as I'm struggling with the same issue myself and just cannot picture your solution

Thanks!
Sorry it's late but i'll see what i can do

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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by Jocky » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:31 am

As Jim says, if you get some drip back that's fine - the DMS precursors you're trying to boil off will escape eventually, as long as they can escape.

Look at any traditional German /Belgian brew house and they have a hood over the kettle, which will naturally cause drip back.

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Re: lid on Lid off

Post by Jocky » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:37 am

tourer, is your y piece like this, one, but mounted upside down and with the fan in the part of the Y that is going off to the side?
062986D6-DD8B-4545-9BC6-50156697589E.jpeg
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