Yeast suggestion

[Deebee]

Hi all,

I am planning a Flowers IPA brew based on grahams recipe in the 3rd edition.

Nothing is mentioned regarding yeats so i wondered what people thought would gove the best and most authentic result.

I have the following available and can always order the others if needed.

S-04
S-05
WL 002
WL 005
Wyeast 1968
Nottingham.

The brew will go into kegs for the main and anything that is left will be bottled.

I have just used a wyeast 1968 in another brew and it fermented really quickly. the bottom of the Fv looks like someone glued a pancake there so i am well pleased.

What are the thoughts based on the beer being made.

thanks
Dave

[Mitchamitri]

mine are...close your eyes.....pick one at random!!!

[Whorst]

For simple malt and hop flavors, UK-05. For more character from the yeast, with a less hop forward flavor profile, WLP-005.

[coatesg]

Whenever I've had Flowers IPA, it's always been on keg, so anything you brew is likely to be better! I'd go for 005 or 002 myself (1968 is the same as 002 too), though they'd all produce fine beer.

[dopejack]

Harking back to my question from a few days ago, if we asked really nicely, do you think Mr Wheeler would provide us with the best yeasts to use for each recipe in his next edition?

[nobby]

Yes 1968 and 002 are the same yeast

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm






.

[coatesg]

Harking back to my question from a few days ago, if we asked really nicely, do you think Mr Wheeler would provide us with the best yeasts to use for each recipe in his next edition?

But, it depends a lot on your setup so still it's hard to get it spot on even with the right yeast (eg if you have temperature control or not, having the ability to culture liquid yeast or not, availability of liquid/dried yeast, what shape fermenter, what your water is like, etc, etc). In some cases, the beer depends a lot on the yeast, in others not so much. Of course, if it's a Fullers recipe, then go for the Fullers yeast - it's very distinctive - but I'd struggle with picking out many other specific yeast flavours from a blind tasting of UK beers - maybe Youngs perhaps.

IMHO, better off taking a yeast that you're happy with that suits your taste, and accept that a clone is unlikely to be spot on.

[SiHoltye]

I made this with S-04 in October last year. Wish I hadn't used that yeast. The hop and malt flavour were muted. I'd favour WLP005 for next time.

[Deebee]

I thought about05 but want to drink in not too long. I also understand 05 is not so flocculant. Some of this will in in bottles.
I think i'll use the white labs 005 unless someone suggests otherwise. As i said i can buy others if needed. I'll take a small amount of yeast and streak it onto a sterile slant before i make the starter too. This way i can keep the same strain for another time.

[Graham]

Harking back to my question from a few days ago, if we asked really nicely, do you think Mr Wheeler would provide us with the best yeasts to use for each recipe in his next edition?

It was a deliberate decision to not include yeast strains in the book. It is an almost impossible task to do otherwise. It would take an awful lot of experimentation trying each beer with several different yeast strains to come up with a definitive strain that an entire tasting panel agree is close to the real thing.

We do not have many traditional breweries left, and many 'brands' have been shifted from brewery to brewery over the years. Flowers Original, which I have just looked up, has been brewed in at least four breweries over the years. It is currently brewed by Hall & Woodhouse at Blanford Forum. Do they take the yeast with them? I doubt it. My guess is that they just use the house yeast.

It does not help that I have a pathological distrust of these liquid yeasts; their origin and authenticity. Of the few liquid yeasts that I have compared to the real thing from the brewery, they have behaved quite differently. Many commercial brewery yeasts are multi-strain, whereas these propagated yeasts are single strain. Many lose their top-working characteristic, which is a problem with force-growing yeast in propagators; they lose other characteristics as well. More and more commercial breweries use high, 50-foot or more, conical fermenters under several tonnes of hydrostatic pressure. It is a bit of a gamble to expect these yeasts to perform true-to-type in an 18-inch bucket.

You cannot really rely on the names given to commercially available yeasts. None of the yeast suppliers give their true sources. The sources given by some third parties are just guesses and pretty bad ones at that. If you look at Kristen England's list on Mr Malty, there seems to be a fair amount of fantasy involved:

Do you really believe that a "British Ale" yeast would have originated from the Oranjeboom brewery in Holland? I don't. (WY1026).

Or that "London ale III" (WY1318) is Boddingtons?. Boddingtons was a Manchester brewery that used Yorkshire squares; Boddingtons is now brewed in Cardiff. Neither place is anywhere near London.

Or do you believe that Ringwood Ale yeast came from the Pripps Brewery, Sweden? (WY1187).

There are similar fantasies in the Whitelabs stuff:
Do you believe that London Ale (WLP013) is Worthington yeast? It is not as if Burton and London are next door to each other. Worthington what yeast? Is it the two-strain primary yeast or the single-strain bottling yeast?

Or that Burton Ale yeast (WLP023) came from Brakspear? Oh yeah! Henley and Burton are next door to each other too.

This stuff is pure fantasy and too unreliable.

I will say that the Brewlab slopes that I tried did seem to work true to type, so if I recommended any it would be from this range, but it is still difficult to ascertain the true source. They give a good clue, by naming a locality, but to determine the donor brewery is still just a guess and quite likely to be wrong.

Those of you that are long enough in the tooth to remember my 'Brew Classic European Beers' book may recall that "Zymopure" yeasts were frequently mentioned in it. That was me in disguise. I had about twenty yeasts isolated and tested, the donor yeast often coming directly from the brewery. The difference with these is that the source was named, albeit in code, but a very simple code, and a full data sheet was available, giving its fermentation characteristics. This would have addressed the anonymity of the yeasts available at the time. Unfortunately that was a long time ago, and I have now lost the strains. Most of them I could never get back because the breweries have now gone too. What an asset that would be if I still had those old strains. Only last year I had a tentative enquiry from an Australian home brew supplier that wanted to stock these. Ho-hum - only twenty years too late.

In my view it is better for a home brewer to have two or three stock yeasts that he or she is comfortable with, and knows the characteristics, and use one of those for most brews.

[steve_flack]

So you're writing off a whole load of yeasts just because you don't know where they came from? Does it matter? Does it matter if they bottom flocculate now? Surely what matters is that they are high quality products that produce quality beers when used correctly. They certainly produce better British ales than the usual collection of dried ale yeast - Nottingham (Mr Dull of yeasts), US-05 (just as dull), S-04 (no thanks).

[Whorst]

UK-05 dull?? C'mon! Dull is subjective, dull according to what?? If you want hops to shine, it's the puppies bollocks and backside. It also brings out juicy malt. Dull to me is S-04. It brings nothing to the table other than mild esters.

[steve_flack]

US-05 is crap for a English Bitter. It adds absolutely nothing to a beer. If all you want is hops and malt then great (although Nottingham is cheaper and has better flocculation).

[mysterio]

I could swear the Burton ale yeast is from Brakspear by the flavour of it. Why they call it Burton, I don't know. It is a top working yeast anyway.

[steve_flack]

I could swear the Burton ale yeast is from Brakspear by the flavour of it. Why they call it Burton, I don't know

I did ask Kristen England about this and basically it came down to don't confuse where the yeast came from (the donor brewery) with where it originally came from. I guess a lot of it is marketing as well.