Fly or batch sparge?

[crookedeyeboy]

So does this mean most micros are wasting a load of sugars because they dont batch sparge? Admittedly I wouldnt like the job of stirring a 5brl mash tun!!

[Capped]

No - fly sparging will always result in better extraction - it's impossible not to when done properly.

....which means I must have been doing it wrong all along seeing as I got much better extract from batch sparging! If the ale turns out good,I'm sold...

[crookedeyeboy]

Hahah and so the argument goes on and on and on and on and on and on........

[Brotherton Lad]

Well, I can't compare the 2 because I haven't tried batch sparging yet. However, with fly sparging (using a jug and taking 40 minutes or so), I find I'm getting about 7 gallons of good wort, which after the boil leaves me with 6 gallons for fermenting at OGs of around 1055 and all this from recipes for a 5 gallon brew length. So, I'm all for an extra gallon of beer.
5 gallon go to FV and then keg, while the 'free' gallon goes to demi-john and bottles.

[weiht]

Chris-x1. totally true on the part about high efficiency doesnt guarantee quality beers.

I guess most of us are trying to save a little on grains , and maybe if we arent getting the levels we deem as appropriate, then we feel they we are doing something wrong

[Capped]

No - fly sparging will always result in better extraction - it's impossible not to when done properly.

....which means I must have been doing it wrong all along seeing as I got much better extract from batch sparging! If the ale turns out good,I'm sold...

It is unusual for a homebrewer to match the level of extract achieved by a brewery so what is achieved at home isn't necessarily an indication of what is possible and it doesn't necessarily reflect badly on individual techniques. Dave Edge used the example of one homebrewer who was complaining about his efficiency yet his beers won awards - so where's the problem. High extract isn't an indication of quality, often the opposite is true.

You are right Chris. I've always been happy and comfortable with fly-sparging,but if my attempts at batch exceed (or even match) the quality I'm used to,I'll stick with it. The fact that I got such a high extract hasn't swayed me - but I was certainly surprised by it!

[boingy]

Efficiency is one of those things that blokes like to boast about but that is actually not that important. Getting a consistent efficiency is more important than the percentage. The saving in grain costs is not a great deal. If you are looking to save money on your brew you would be better off looking at the hops and yeast part of the recipe.

[Capped]

Oh,and I gotta admit that the whole process was a lot less hassle and a sight quicker than fly-sparging. A convert? Watch this space!

Anyone still watching this space ? I sampled the first pint of my batch-sparged ale last night. It's been in the bottle for six days but is so clear that I thought I'd have a sneak preview. I'm sold - it is definitely better than my fly-sparged ale would be at this stage and I can barely wait for the four weeks I'm going to give it before tucking in,to go by. To think that I'd been put off batch-sparging for all this time 'cos I couldn't get a perfectly clear run-off! Take it from me it doesn't matter a fig!

[JayM72]

Well after doing my first six batches using fly sparging I'm definitely going to have a go at batch sparging next time just to see what's it's all about!

[WishboneBrewery]

I've had some fantastic Mash Efficiencies lately just batch sparging, yesterdays was 93.7% on a 90min Mash, recycled the first 2 litres and let run off

BTW, what is the stiffest a Mash could be with the least Liquor and what would it benefit?

[Blackjack]

The Argument

YES Fly sparging can theoretically give the very best extraction from a mash or any similar "rinsing" process through a granular bed, BUT only if the bed remains undisturbed and the process is progressive down through the length ( ie. it's physical height) of the bed, ie no channelling etc. or turbulent mixing in the flow within the bed. Also it will work best if the ratio of the length of the bed to granular size is greatest, which means it will work best on a larger rather than smaller scale, ( ie. a commercial brewery). None of the other conditions can really be maintained reliably on a home brew scale. In fact on one web site I saw some theoretical diagrams of flow in the base of a rectangular mash tun with a piping type manifold. Which demonstrated the likelihood of uneven flow to some height in the grain bed.

YES Batch sparging is best in practice and can get quite close to the theoretical maximum efficiency (I don't mean malt to sugar conversion efficiency) with just two or three rinse batches. Because sugars are being converted throughout the sparge process and a large proportion of the volume of the liquid is never drained because it is soaked in by the grain it is not possible to calculate easily. The simple fact that a third sparge looks like water and tastes like water is telling one that everything useful that can be extracted has been extracted.

All operators of commercial processes including breweries, prefer continuous processing rather than batch processing, because it is cheaper. There is no manual intervention to pay wages for, or to get wrong. Having automatic valves and flow meters on the in and out etc. is easy and cheap.

Using batch sparging on a large commercial scale is a nighmare waiting to happen. The larger the scale the greater the problems of distribution and mixing and as the temperature increases this could be potentially uneven and unreliable.

I get rather variable brew efficiency sometimes only! about 80% and at other times the OG is way over the top ( like others have said) and I wonder whether I accidentally lobbed an extra kilo of grain in without noticing. I scratch my head and have come to two conclusions.
a.) my extraction from batch sparging is extremely high, always.
b.) The variation stems from the precise temperature I mash at. Just a degree or two away from 66 and the eficiency can drop off dramatically.

Commercial practice is never necessarily a sound recommendation and on our typical scale batch sparging has to be best, even if by only a small margin.

[WishboneBrewery]

Did I read somewhere that 'Grain Bed Surface Area -to- Grain Depth' should be something specific for the Mash to Sparge Efficiently?