Twang

[pas8280]

So far i have made over 40 AG brews all bar two have been bottlled with great success and i am happy with my set up and method.
Over christmas i utilised an old bottom tap king keg gave it a good clean and put 17l brew into it nothing fancy just a basic bitter, after being in there a good 5 weeks i ran it trough a beer engine via a demand valve. The method worked perfect nice clear pint good head etc, the only issue was a twang to the beer a little reminiscent of the old homebrew twang i remembered from the eighties. Still the beer was drunk and after the first pint or so the taste wasn't noticable.
I put this all down to the barrel retaining some after taste in the plastic afterall it was second hand so i went for the belt and braces approach gave everything a good soak and scrub with soda crystals etc before refilling with a second brew.
After 5 weeks in there to condition i pulled a pint direct from the barrel (eliminating the beer engine set up) and whilst the twang was not as pronounced as the last brew it was still there ???
Am i missing something fundamental with the barreling process or is the king Keg the issue and needs whizzing ??

[a-slayer]

I have always found that bottling the beer gives a far superior beer to barreled beer. I gave away five plastic kegs for the very same reason and am now 100% bottles. I can wash and get 10 gallons worth of beer bottled (old quart cider bottles) and every thing put away in an hour . Also bottles give you the chance to keep part of brews for as long as you like and still taste good, unlike kegs which you need to keep going and drink the lot.
Saying this I am sure there are just as many people happy with there barrels and would never change to bottles. Find what suits you and stick to it.

[Jim]

Sounds like you deffo have a taint of some kind in that keg. To clean a keg thoroughly you'll need to dismantle the tap assembly completely and clean and sterilise the parts.

A-slayer. I'm the direct opposite to you - I much prefer draught beer.

[a-slayer]

A-slayer. I'm the direct opposite to you - I much prefer draught beer. [/quote]

That's the good thing about us all, we are all different. Everybody to there own taste.

[Horatio]

A-slayer. I'm the direct opposite to you - I much prefer draught beer.

That's the good thing about us all, we are all different. Everybody to there own taste.[/quote]
I prefer draught beer too but I always bottle as I don't like beer from a pressure barrel as I always think it comes out more like keg beer! Nothing wrong with liking keg beer, I just don't. If I want it to be like draught them I will serve from a polypin an suffer having to drink it all in short order!

[Dennis King]

100% with you on this one Horatio

[trucker5774]

The twang is probably down to some type of residue from the barrel. I have had this with an old barrel I just could not getaway from that plastic taint. Having said that all my best brews have been from a barrel...............even if the life span has been shorter (just like real cask ale).

I have made some great bottled beers but, even with commercial beers, I find bottled beers a bit "samey"...........just thought I would chip in, as the thread seems to be going the way of bottle vs. cask

[HighHops]

Hey A-Slay!

I'm wid you! 300 bottles all in various states of conditioning. Drinking is almost as much organisation as brewing, but I love it! I've got one barrel that I'm thinking of freebaying! Just not the same taste for me!!

[pas8280]

Thanks guys pretty unanimous that it's a taint from the barrel thought i had done a good job with the soda crystals any recommendations as to how to resolve it or is the barrel destined for the tip ?
ps welcome back Trucker speak soon
Paul

[Blackjack]

I like the draught in preference to bottled, and I now use a CO2 breather valve on the cask. But I find it tastes much better if I use a good sparkler on the hand pull and aerate the beer well.
An old publican told me a good trick to clear and condition a cask is to tap it, and then leave a very very slow drip into a bucket overnight and then return it to the cask. Works wonders apparently.

Maybe it is a LACK of oxygen in the air over the beer that CAMRA object to when pubs use cask breathers, not just the simple principle of CO2 in any shape or form. Of course too much air and the beer will be rubbish after a few days. Anybody high up in CAMRA and on here can inform?

[Horatio]

It's is all very much a personal choice isn't it. I hate beer that has been pulled through a sparkler and think it knocks all the hop character and flavour out of it. To me the best beers I have ever tasted have been gravity dispensed direct from the firkin. I think some commercial beers are meant to be better if served through a sparkler though? Is it a north/south thing?

Don't know if I like the idea of adding the dregs from a drip tray back to the cask Sounds like a recipe for spoiling a good beer to me but who knows (well, BlackJack's mate it would seem )

[Blackjack]

It's is all very much a personal choice isn't it. I hate beer that has been pulled through a sparkler and think it knocks all the hop character and flavour out of it. To me the best beers I have ever tasted have been gravity dispensed direct from the firkin. I think some commercial beers are meant to be better if served through a sparkler though? Is it a north/south thing?

Don't know if I like the idea of adding the dregs from a drip tray back to the cask Sounds like a recipe for spoiling a good beer to me but who knows (well, BlackJack's mate it would seem )

N/S. No I don't think so. With wine it is considered important to let it breathe, and if a pint goes down slightly faster then I think the air brings out the flavours better. Then again I don't go for deep cold, which, sadly, gets drunk all over the country

I've never tried it. But he is a very old taxi driver and publican from many many years ago, Of course back in the very very old days, proper ale was allowed to "stale" for anything up to a year, and only "mild" was new fresh ale. And old ale was added to new to improve and condition the flavour. And ale was stronger as well!. We might be better going back to some old practices

[gnorwebthgimi]

I get variable results with bottles and barrels.

Usually the barrel is ok, some bottles are better and some worse.

I would say that the only difference is largely down to carbonation meaning that bottles taste crisper and draught rounded/fuller.

I suspect that the twang has more to do with sediment levels.

[dave-o]

I am a bottle fan too, but for different reasons.

After carbonation, for half the keg, kegs produce too much froth when poured. I have to top up 3 or 4 times, waiting a few minutes in between if i want a pint from a keg. This also seems to remove most of the actual carbonation. After that, the beer is either dead or you need to carb it up again with a bulb and you are back to too much froth. I only seem to get a few pints per barrel where it actually pours properly.

With bottles the beer is consistent, well carbed, not overly frothy (if poured properly) and can be kept for ages without it going off.

[gnorwebthgimi]

I don't like my beer carb'd much or at all.

But in order to get some consistency I have found that you can open the top of a barrel and ditch in some more sugar for the yeast to top up carbonation if needed without ANY oxidation as a result.

I now barrel with about 50 grams sugar and add more when it goes flat, to keep carbonation at a minimum simply to dispense the beer.

If you like carbonation and you're ok with running the risk of cracking your barrel then you can get a nicely carb'd beer from a barrel by adding sufficient sugar and drawing off beer REALLY slowly through the tap. It's tediously slow to pour a pint but you don't get too much froth (head) if you let the tap just dribble the beer out slowly. There is still plenty of fizz because the CO2 is dissolved into the beer.