Do I need to mash lager/pilsner malts?

[Befuddler]

Pilsner malt has a different flavour, that's it's job. Most modern Pilsner malt is well modified, unless you specifically look for one that isn't because you want to do a step mash. Therefore, decoction and step mashes are not necessary. This argument is not necessary.

I'm not saying you can't use other malts in it's place, but it does have it's place.

It is necessary, how is the flavour different.. Modified.. It's down to the crop in the first place...

It's pretty hard to quantify a flavour in words, but obviously you can tell the difference between the same beer made with Maris Otter and Pilsner. The Pilsner flavour suits some styles (particularly continental ones) better.

For a briefing on modified versus undermodified malt, see this page: http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12.html

As I said, most Pilsner these days is fully modified and needs only a simple infusion mash:

Description:
EBC 2.8 - 3.5 (mash required): Dingemans Pilsner Malt is light and low in protein, Dingemans Pilsen is produced from the finest European two-row barley. This malt is well modified and can easily be mashed with a single-temperature infusion. Dingemans Pils is an excellent malt for many styles, including full-flavored lager, Belgian ale and European style wheat beer. Dingemans Pilsen being low in protein, results in a remarkably clean and light finished product.

[testtube]

I have that book, so what, can you, what? Better / worse? What's the spec on it?

[Befuddler]

I have that book, so what, can you, what? Better / worse? What's the spec on it? Not really a bold statement then hugh!

I'm just going to assume you're drunk, because I can't even decipher that.

[EoinMag]

Lol, Befuddler is crap. Or is he?

[testtube]

I have that book, so what, can you, what? Better / worse? What's the spec on it? Not really a bold statement then hugh!

I'm just going to assume you're drunk, because I can't even decipher that.

what's the spec on dingman's.

[Befuddler]

EDITED BY ADMIN

I'm not going to continue this.

Have a nice evening.

[Bribie]

Nobody is forcing anyone to drink or like European Lagers. However if you want to make an authentic Euro it's a good idea to use Euro malt such as Weyermann. Their main varieties are well modified (if you don't know what modified means then your knowledge of malting might need a bit of a tickle up) because the majority of German breweries nowadays do stepped mashes such as the Hochkurz mash and have abandoned the old decoction system. So if you like you can use them in a single infusion mash with no dramas.

Looking at UK and Euro beers from an international perspective here, I'd have to say that whilst there are a lot of stand outs in UK ales such as Old Speckled Hen etc and whilst my main malts that I use are from the UK (TF Golden Promise, Bairds Perle etc) there's still a lot of swill produced in the UK - as a visitor, unless you know what you are looking for and go armed with a CAMRA guide it's possible to drink some very uninspiring and frankly nasty beers such as Lees 3.4% whoopee doo or many of the nitro kegs, whilst everywhere you go in Germany you are going to get a high standard of fine flavourful beer, especially in Weyermann's own patch there in Bavaria.

Having met and spoken with Thomas Weyermann, I seriously doubt whether they crave for UK malts.

[mat69]

EDITED BY ADMIN.

brilliant..

well handled befuddler i must say

[EoinMag]

Nobody is forcing anyone to drink or like European Lagers. However if you want to make an authentic Euro it's a good idea to use Euro malt such as Weyermann. Their main varieties are well modified (if you don't know what modified means then your knowledge of malting might need a bit of a tickle up) because the majority of German breweries nowadays do stepped mashes such as the Hochkurz mash and have abandoned the old decoction system. So if you like you can use them in a single infusion mash with no dramas.

Looking at UK and Euro beers from an international perspective here, I'd have to say that whilst there are a lot of stand outs in UK ales such as Old Speckled Hen etc and whilst my main malts that I use are from the UK (TF Golden Promise, Bairds Perle etc) there's still a lot of swill produced in the UK - as a visitor, unless you know what you are looking for and go armed with a CAMRA guide it's possible to drink some very uninspiring and frankly nasty beers such as Lees 3.4% whoopee doo or many of the nitro kegs, whilst everywhere you go in Germany you are going to get a high standard of fine flavourful beer, especially in Weyermann's own patch there in Bavaria.

Having met and spoken with Thomas Weyermann, I seriously doubt whether they crave for UK malts.

Dude that guy wasn't looking for a reasoned argument, I think you're wasting your time, although I hope he's woken up this morning wondering what he did last night.

[testtube]

Doesn't really help any.. our barley is low in nitrogen before it's malted... Just look's like you use it cause you can, rather than using uk lager malt.. Malted in the similar fashion as pilsner malt, too give the similar flavour?

[Befuddler]

I'm not sure why you're so focused on low nitrogen content, as if it's the sole defining characteristic of a "good" malt. The reason we use torrefied wheat in our pale beers is that the nitrogen content of our pale malts are so low that the head retention and mouthfeel are weaker than something like pilsner. In many styles, slightly higher nitrogen is desirable.

Anyway, if you want to choose your ingredients based solely on spec sheets, perhaps you should be making detergent, not beer.

[testtube]

Don't know where you get that from, nitrogen content over or near 2% is 1 good reason why temp-step mash (less mouthfeel & body) is needed, try and keep down on unwanted protein's in there and stop your beer tasting like egg's! (dimethyl sulphide) Think you need to have a read of your book's..

They are getting uptight about this years harvest..

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2011/08/1 ... y-crop.htm

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2011/07/2 ... levels.htm

[Befuddler]

I said, slightly higher nitrogen. All brewing malts are relatively low in nitrogen or they wouldn't be used for the purpose, as I'm sure you well know. I'm not going to be drawn into a pedantic stat slinging match. Suffice to say the nitrogen difference is absolutely minimal and the more pronounced difference is in the enzymes. The differing enzymes are the reason that DMS is a much more serious problem with British malts than continental, and the reason why British lager malt is inferior to genuine Pilsner when used in the same way.

What I'm attempting to get across to you here is that such a sweeping statement as "it's crap", has no meaning in the midst of all these variables. Pilsner malt has its own unique flavour, is just as easy to convert, has a nitrogen and protein content within the desirable range, and is a perfectly good malt to use for many, many different beers. If you could attempt to swallow this information without spitting another insult at me, I'd be much obliged.

[Manx Guy]

What I'm attempting to get across to you here is that such a sweeping statement as "it's crap", has no meaning in the midst of all these variables. Pilsner malt has its own unique flavour, is just as easy to convert, has a nitrogen and protein content within the desirable range, and is a perfectly good malt to use for many, many different beers. If you could attempt to swallow this information without spitting another insult at me, I'd be much obliged.

I'll be watching for the reply...




Guy

[testtube]

But there's no spec I can find! Authentic pilsner malt wouldn't be well modified... It's well accepted that we have the best malt's in the world, an authentic yeast would make more of a difference, correct lagering for a smooth crisp beer..