Mash lengths

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Hairybiker
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Re: Mash lengths

Post by Hairybiker » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:56 pm

orlando wrote: Well that's quite a contrast so what were the results?
TBH I couldn't tell the difference!

Horses for courses. If I was going to be busy the following day then setting up a mash at night and leaving it until I was ready to sparge meant I could save a couple of hours.
Both turn(ed) out good beer, no noticeable difference to my palette. Not done this since I moved to the Grainfather, but regularly did it on my old 3V system.

I find with modern malt you don't need a long mash, you could probably cut it even further, but without an iodine test I don't know how short you could go. With the GF I just mash for 60min then ramp up to 75C for a mash out then cold water sparge. Been doing that all year with good results (bar the last sack of malt, was getting low efficiency with it)

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Re: Mash lengths

Post by alix101 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:23 pm

I got this wrong earlier this year and an 8%+ ABV stout with an FG of 1010 wasn't what I was after. As a consequence it sits there taking valuable space.
Hey Eric ill take that of your hands 8% session stout :D
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Re: Mash lengths

Post by Eric » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:57 pm

alix101 wrote:
I got this wrong earlier this year and an 8%+ ABV stout with an FG of 1010 wasn't what I was after. As a consequence it sits there taking valuable space.
Hey Eric ill take that of your hands 8% session stout :D
Session stout? Come down and try it. .
My only thoughts have been to make an Entire with it and a young lighter brew, but the mixes tried so far were not inspiring.
Possibly overdoing the home roasted malts didn't help but they have now eased. You can take it if you like. I think Jim's tried it.
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Re: Mash lengths

Post by Rookie » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:28 pm

I went to a 45 minute mash and boil several years ago and didn't notice any difference from 60 minutes.
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Re: Mash lengths

Post by simple one » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:31 pm

Overnight or 90 minutes.

I prefer overnight for perceived wort quality and time saved.

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Re: Mash lengths

Post by DethApostle » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:36 am

For my last 10-15 brews I've been going down the overnight mash route however now I am thinking more about the processes and am wondering if I need to return to a 90 minute mash in order to control mouthfeel and head retention.
My more recent beers have all been a bit on the thin side and while they have all poured with a good head it has lacked staying power and dies off quickly. I know there's a lot of variables at play here but I am wondering if a major part of it relates to the mash?

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Re: Mash lengths

Post by BackO'Th'Shed » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:19 am

I used to mash for 90 minutes, but recently moved to 45 minutes. The only noticeable difference is a much shorter brew day... I will be bucking the trend with my next brew though as I'll be doing a double decoction mash for my dunkelweizen, but with 15 minute steps so should be about 2 hours mash overall. Unless you're brewing a a wheat beer or a high OG beer, I think 45 minutes is generally long enough.

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Re: Mash lengths

Post by rpt » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:10 pm

When people say they are mashing for 45 minutes I assume that is followed by a sparge. How long does that take? As I BIAB I do at least 90 minutes but there is no sparge or mash out.

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Re: Mash lengths

Post by Eric » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:12 pm

BackO'Th'Shed wrote:I used to mash for 90 minutes, but recently moved to 45 minutes. The only noticeable difference is a much shorter brew day... I will be bucking the trend with my next brew though as I'll be doing a double decoction mash for my dunkelweizen, but with 15 minute steps so should be about 2 hours mash overall. Unless you're brewing a a wheat beer or a high OG beer, I think 45 minutes is generally long enough.
I know of a commericial brewer who always mashes for 60 minutes, totally convinced that a 90 minutes mash introduces cabbage type flavours. It's my opinion he makes very good beers, but the one criticism I commonly hear levelled at them in pubs is they are all too similar. Mash duration is one of your tools and it is better considered as that than an unnecessary evil.

DA, longer mashes will result in thinner beers with fewer longer chained sugars. One alternative might be to try including unmalted cereals in your mash as explained here. Crystal malts will reduce heading properties. There's a bit more information on mashing here, which although short in detail, does advise the necessity to change operational protocols (their wording) to compensate for any variations.

rpt, yes, the mash continues as long as enzymes are present and active.
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Re: Mash lengths

Post by johnluc » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:13 pm

mash for 60min then ramp up to 75C for a mash out then cold water sparge.)[/quote]

what am i missing here, i've never heard of a cold water spare, i thought the sparge water should be 75c

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Re: Mash lengths

Post by simon12 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:33 pm

This is interesting I always thought (incorrectly it seems) 1 hour mash was just a good time to make sure all conversion has taken place though it should have been done in half that and over 1 hour mash was if you are getting poor mash efficiency and if you can do the iodine test then theres no point in mashing beyond when all starch has been converted.

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Re: Mash lengths

Post by Hairybiker » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:54 pm

johnluc wrote:mash for 60min then ramp up to 75C for a mash out then cold water sparge.)
what am i missing here, i've never heard of a cold water spare, i thought the sparge water should be 75c[/quote]
There has been loads of talk on the Grainfather facebook pages about cold water sparging. As long as you do a mash out then you don't need to sparge at 75C. Doing a mash out is a bit difficult if you don't have some way of doing recirculation and heating.
But with the GF I just set to 75C leave for 20 min recirculating, and then raise and sparge with cold water straight from the tap. (Or if I want to treat it via a large pot.) Not found any losses other than the fact the to boil stage takes a few minutes longer.

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Re: Mash lengths

Post by Eric » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:17 pm

simon12 wrote:This is interesting I always thought (incorrectly it seems) 1 hour mash was just a good time to make sure all conversion has taken place though it should have been done in half that and over 1 hour mash was if you are getting poor mash efficiency and if you can do the iodine test then theres no point in mashing beyond when all starch has been converted.
Indeed it is likely that all starches will be converted to sugars in far less time than a typical mash period, the question being in what form and proportions are the sugars?

It's worth pondering why Scottish brewers did what they did. It hasn't been in their nature to waste time, effort or squander money paying men wages for something that wasn't worthwhile. If it could be done properly in 30 minutes they would have done it a long time since. It was they who fly sparged to get every drop of sugar.
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Re: Mash lengths

Post by Rookie » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:30 pm

rpt wrote:When people say they are mashing for 45 minutes I assume that is followed by a sparge. How long does that take? As I BIAB I do at least 90 minutes but there is no sparge or mash out.
I batch sparge which goes pretty quick.
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Re: Mash lengths

Post by Eric » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:52 pm

I fly sparge which takes at the very least an hour.
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