First A.G Lager- water treatment help needed

Get advice on making beer from raw ingredients (malt, hops, water and yeast)
Matt in Birdham
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 764
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: First A.G Lager- water treatment help needed

Post by Matt in Birdham » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:37 pm

orlando wrote:
john luc wrote:Just re read that op and I be surprised that your drinking water is 5.8 PH. :shock:
Agreed, suppliers are obliged to keep it close to neutral. Irrelevant to a brewer anyway but another reason for having a proper analysis.
I think 6.5 or so is the minimum allowed - anything too acidic will play havoc with metal pipes - but there is some leeway on the basic side. So agreed - 5.8 seems highly unlikely.

One slightly cheaper option than Ashbeck could be RO water. My local aquatic place sells 25l of pure RO for £3 (bring your own jerry), and you can build up your water from that (obviously a bit of calcium required, maybe not much else for a lager). I've done a few brews now with RO and results were good, but no better than lime softening or CRS for me (worth a try, though).

j444fog
Steady Drinker
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: First A.G Lager- water treatment help needed

Post by j444fog » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:31 am

I live in a high ph area (South Staffs) and have been brewing lagers for about 6 months now.

I agree with all of the posts above re getting a decent water report and working from there, however, as that involves time and then getting the right corrective ingredients, and I am guessing that you probably want to get your brew on asap I would advise that at this stage, brew with your local water and work on your lager technique for now, before moving onto water profiling.

In the early days of lager brewing I found that concentrating on lager and lagering technique yielded far more impact on the taste of my lager than concentrating on getting the water profile 'just right'. And what is 'just right' anyway? I'm not saying don't work on your water profile, I'm suggesting at this stage, as lager is such a delicate beast to work with, you will benefit massively on working on the other lager brewing technique basics:

Which yeast to use - definitely go for a lager yeast, but which one and what flavour profile will it give me
Liquid or Dry Yeast? Lager? - Build a big starter! Shaken or stirred? (great research thread this one and one I massively enjoyed!)
Noble hops or funky hops?
Pilsner Malt or a bit of Vienna etc?
Pitching the yeast at the right temperature and when vigourous enough to withstand a low temp fermentation
Temperature control - How low is too low? Building a fermentation fridge, controller and temp control
Clean and crisp or a tiny bit of Ester and other flavours?
Diacetyl rest - when, what temp, and for how long?
Cold crashing and .....
Lagering - how long makes a difference.....
And then there is always brulosophy method.....
Carbonating and serving a decent lager .....

And after getting your head round all that (5 or 6 brews before it all starts working well in my experience) I would consider the effect water has on the taste.

I haven't found that correcting the water profile has made any difference on successful fermentation - getting the starter right before pitching, and most importantly for me, and, the single most thing that has improved all my brewing (both ales and lagers) is Temperature Control of fermentation and lagering using a brew fridge and inkbird type controller. The water profile makes a difference, but getting all of the above right has made significantly more difference to my brewing of lagers than anything else (I've tried a couple of lagers using Asbeck and not really identified a difference in taste).

Hope this is of some help with your lagers - I've been using WLP 830 for my last 6 lagers and love it, great yeast - I'd advise reading up on how to re-claim your yeast from the fermentation yeast cake and re-use it in your next brew so that you can have a steady and reliable source of good yeast without having to buy in and have liquid yeast transported half way across the planet before you can use it.

Happy brewing :)

Rhodesy
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:09 pm
Location: Glasgow

Re: First A.G Lager- water treatment help needed

Post by Rhodesy » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:05 pm

j444fog wrote:I live in a high ph area (South Staffs) and have been brewing lagers for about 6 months now.

I agree with all of the posts above re getting a decent water report and working from there, however, as that involves time and then getting the right corrective ingredients, and I am guessing that you probably want to get your brew on asap I would advise that at this stage, brew with your local water and work on your lager technique for now, before moving onto water profiling.

In the early days of lager brewing I found that concentrating on lager and lagering technique yielded far more impact on the taste of my lager than concentrating on getting the water profile 'just right'. And what is 'just right' anyway? I'm not saying don't work on your water profile, I'm suggesting at this stage, as lager is such a delicate beast to work with, you will benefit massively on working on the other lager brewing technique basics:

Which yeast to use - definitely go for a lager yeast, but which one and what flavour profile will it give me
Liquid or Dry Yeast? Lager? - Build a big starter! Shaken or stirred? (great research thread this one and one I massively enjoyed!)
Noble hops or funky hops?
Pilsner Malt or a bit of Vienna etc?
Pitching the yeast at the right temperature and when vigourous enough to withstand a low temp fermentation
Temperature control - How low is too low? Building a fermentation fridge, controller and temp control
Clean and crisp or a tiny bit of Ester and other flavours?
Diacetyl rest - when, what temp, and for how long?
Cold crashing and .....
Lagering - how long makes a difference.....
And then there is always brulosophy method.....
Carbonating and serving a decent lager .....

And after getting your head round all that (5 or 6 brews before it all starts working well in my experience) I would consider the effect water has on the taste.

I haven't found that correcting the water profile has made any difference on successful fermentation - getting the starter right before pitching, and most importantly for me, and, the single most thing that has improved all my brewing (both ales and lagers) is Temperature Control of fermentation and lagering using a brew fridge and inkbird type controller. The water profile makes a difference, but getting all of the above right has made significantly more difference to my brewing of lagers than anything else (I've tried a couple of lagers using Asbeck and not really identified a difference in taste).

Hope this is of some help with your lagers - I've been using WLP 830 for my last 6 lagers and love it, great yeast - I'd advise reading up on how to re-claim your yeast from the fermentation yeast cake and re-use it in your next brew so that you can have a steady and reliable source of good yeast without having to buy in and have liquid yeast transported half way across the planet before you can use it.

Happy brewing :)
Great post! Can I ask if you pitch at a low temperature with WLP830 and if you raise for a diacytel rest or not? I made 6 lagers this year using WLP860 which turned out great including an Oktoberfest, Munich Helles & Dunkel. I plan to use a new yeast for my next lagers I will do shortly but toying with the idea of pitching around 9C and not raising it for a diacytel rest as I done for my other lagers. I have asked this before with contrasting views and having read up a bit it seems there is a mixed approach.

bassman
Sober
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:56 am
Location: Staffordshire

Re: First A.G Lager- water treatment help needed

Post by bassman » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:01 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone

Post Reply