Hello, and help!

[Gavlar]

Hello all, my first post here, and I have a problem!

A few years ago I bought a Coopers kit on a whim, made some very average beer (most of which went down the sink) and then boxed it all up and put it in the loft

More recently I started thinking more seriously about getting into brewing, and after reading various websites and books I decided to try all grain. I was wondering whether I could justify splashing out on a Grainfather before I’d even given it a go (all the gear, no idea etc) but the missus suggested she’d get it for my early Christmas present! Result! So, that was last October, I’ve done three brews and they have all come out with the same issues:

Very little, if any carbonation.
A slight oily slick on the top surface of the beer when it’s poured into a glass.
A faint chemically taint to the taste. Not enough to make you spit it out retching, but certainly enough to make you pull a face and not want any more!

Here’s how the three attempts went down:

First was a Summer Lightning clone from Brew UK. Brew day seemed to go well, except that the kit came with a Wyeast smack-pack, and although I thought I’d smacked it pretty hard, when it was time to pitch it I saw that the nutrient pack hadn’t ruptured. Anyway, I fermented it in the Coopers fermenter I’d kept from years ago. There didn’t seem to be much activity from the airlock, but after about 8 days I was getting the same gravity reading so racked it off to the plastic bottles that were also part of the original Coopers stuff. Then I tried a bottle 2, 4 & 6 weeks later, with the results as described above.

The next attempt was a hoppy pale ale which again came as a kit, from a different online supplier (I forget which one). After the first attempt I’d cleaned the Coopers fermenter but it always seemed to have a plastic/chemical smell that no amount of rinsing seemed to get rid of, so I wondered whether that and the old plastic bottles were the problem. This time I bought a cheap plastic Young’s fermenting bucket. I didn’t notice until it was time to run the wort off into it that it didn’t have a hole for an airlock in the lid, and I didn’t have a drill bit the right size to make one, so I just sealed the lid all around then lifted a small section to let it vent and hoped for the best. When the gravity levelled off I bottled it, this time in glass bottles I’d saved and cleaned. And it was rubbish again.

So, third attempt, I tried to figure what else could be causing the issues. Seems a common cause of chemically flavours is high levels of chlorimide in the water so I got some Campden tablets. I wondered about temperature fluctuations during fermentation, so I got a heat belt, plus a temperature controller so it wasn’t just on all the time. And then I blew a load of cash on a Ss Brewtech fermenter, just cos I figured it would be easier to clean & sanitise and I liked what I was reading about the conical shape keeping the surface area of trub in contact with the beer to a minimum. With this set up ready to go, I got the same grain & hops as my original Summer Lightning attempt, but with my experience of the smack-pack in mind I got some dry yeast. Brew day went well, I got it run off to the fermenter (lovely bit of kit!) with the heat belt set up and a blow off tube coming off the top into a tub of Starsan. The temp controller kept it around 19-20 deg, there was loads of activity from the blow off tube, and again when the gravity levelled off I racked it to some bottles feeling pretty confident I’d cracked it.

And then, I opened a bottle the other evening (after about 3 weeks) and it was flat, there was an oily film, and the same weird taste.

Now I’m feeling reluctant to start another brew. To be honest, I’ve really enjoyed the process each time, working through the timings, different stages, cleaning this bit whilst waiting for that thing, it’s quite a therapeutic exercise I think, and I don’t want to give up. But of course it needs to have a decent end product.

So, apologies for the long rambling first post, but if anyone has an idea of what mistakes I’m making, or what I should try next I would be extremely grateful. Thanks!

[Jim]

Gavlar, it sounds as though your problem is occurring at the bottling stage. Could you elaborate on your bottling procedures? In particular, wow are you priming the bottles?

[BenB]

What products are you using for cleaning and ditto sanitising? Something is wrong here! If in doubt I'd recommend starting with a kit (fewer processes) and taste at every stage to try and find where it's going wrong.

[BenB]

A kit needs low alkalinity / mineral water for which Tescos Ashbeck is a good option. This also rules out an issue with the tap water / chloramine.

[spanspoon]

it sounds like your bottles.
if i were you i'd splash put on some new glass ones.
i had a similar problem with some old grolsch bottles.
after some advice on here i soaked them in oxi and they have come up like new.

[chefgage]

For the carbonation issue can you tell us the steps you take when bottling. Ie how much priming sugar are you using, where are the bottles stored after bottling with regards to temperature etc

[Gavlar]

Thanks all for your questions/suggestions.

So, cleaner & sanitiser: The first two batches I was using VWP & Harris no-rinse. For the last batch, I used PBW & Starsan, for no other reason than to try and change it up and get a different result. I particularly like the Starsan, as I found it quite hard to get the powdered Harris stuff fully dissolved.

Bottling:

The first batch I reused the Coopers PET bottles from my original kit. Washed in VWP and then a spray of the Harris sanitiser, they were filled straight from the fermenter using a bottling wand, primed with Munton's carbonation drops.

The second batch I kept some 330ml bottles from beer I'd bought. They went in the dishwasher, then again cleaned with VWP and sanitised with Harris. Munton's drops again, filled from the fermenter but I couldn't get the wand fitted to the tap on the Young's bucket so I filled them straight from the tap.

Both of these were stored in a cupboard in the kitchen. It was before we had too much cold weather so with the heating switching on and off throughout the day I reckon they saw between 15 and 19 degrees.

The third batch went into brand new 500ml bottles I bought from a home brew store. They were washed with PBW then sprayed with Starsan. Filled from the fermenter using the bottling wand, and again primed with Munton's drops. These were stored in the box the bottles came in, in the front room, but I guess because we've seen colder temps over the last few weeks they've been pretty cool at times when the heating's off during the day.

What sort of temperature should the bottles be during conditioning? Could fluctuations in temp possibly result in the dodgy flavour I'm getting?

Regarding using bottles water, that's a good shout, at least whilst trying to pinpoint where it's going wrong.

[Jim]

Just to be clear, you rinsed off all the VWP fully?

[BenB]

Good point re rinsing. Amazing how much rinsing can be required. I now go to the extreme of tasting the final rinse water. If I'm hesitant to drink it it's usually because deep down I know it needs more rinsing. Often my taste buds confirm what I know but am being too lazy to accept! Another thing is to use hot water (including the final rinse)- pbw can stay solid in cold water only to dissolve later.

[Gavlar]

Right, well I'd say I thought I'd rinsed everything adequately. But now since you're asking, I'm having doubts. That's a good idea to taste the last rinse!

[WalesAles]

Right, well I'd say I thought I'd rinsed everything adequately. But now since you're asking, I'm having doubts. That's a good idea to taste the last rinse!

Gav,
I always wash / sanitise the bottles twice then rinse THOROUGHLY twice, and I mean MEGA rinsing!
I hope it`s something as simple as that!

WA

[guypettigrew]

You have a Grainfather and a SS Brewtech fermenter. Both are highly regarded bits of brewing kit and will produce gorgeous beers for you once this problem is solved.

The lack of carbonation in the bottles suggests there isn't enough yeast when you bottle (very unlikely), there aren't enough residual sugars or you aren't priming sufficiently (again, unlikely), the caps aren't being driven home or the beer's being kept too cold to carbonate in the bottle.

The oily slick and the taste suggest an infection. But you're using all the common cleaners and sanitizers.

If it's an infection then my guess is it's somehow getting into the beer towards the end of the fermentation. Does fermentation start quickly, within 18 hours or less? And how long have you been leaving the beer in the fermenter?

Guy

[Gavlar]

[quote="guypettigrew"]
Does fermentation start quickly, within 18 hours or less? And how long have you been leaving the beer in the fermenter? [/quote]

Hard to say when fermentation started on the first two Guy, but I reckon there was krausen visible within 18 hours. Batch three, the blow off tube was active on the night of the brew day so I'd say that was a pretty healthy fermentation!

As far as how long they've been in there, I've always waited until the gravity readings I was taking were the same 2 days in a row. So for batch 1 it was 9 days, batch 2 7 days and batch 3 9 days again.

[Gavlar]

[quote="WalesAles"]
I hope it`s something as simple as that!

WA[/quote]

Me too! I'm seriously upping my washing & rinsing game on the next one!

[guypettigrew]

Wondering now about the Muntons drops. Never used them myself, but some people on other forums say they take ages to carbonate a bottled beer. Plus I wonder how sterile they are.

How about making up a priming solution of sugar in water next time and then putting a small amount in each bottle?

Did you taste the beers before you bottled them? It would be good to know the point in the process at which the taste went off.

Guy