Flameout hops, whirlpool and cooling question

[timtoos]

Hi all,

I have a question about flameout hops, cooling and whirlpool.

I brew using a braumeister and when I come to adding flameout hops I add the immersion chiller and cool down to 80C then add my flameout hops. I then leave for 20 minutes then carry on cooling.

Once cooled to pitch temperature I then whirlpool and leave for a further amount of time - say 15 - 20 minutes.

Whats your advice on this? Should IC, add the hops and carry on cooling. Should I whirlpool at the same time as flameout hop addition then after 20 minutes carry on cooling?

There seems lots of varying options but would like to ask you guys for advice on the best option.

TIA

[alexlark]

I've thought about this, I brew BIAB but do the same as you. I can't see any bitterness coming from the hops once down to pitch temp so only goodness coming from the hops really.

[Jocky]

Just to give you some context, when commercial breweries 'whirlpool hop' they do so because it takes an hour for them to drain everything through the plate chiller.

The massive volume of liquid stays very hot for most of that time, so just adding hops at 5 minutes from the end of the boil actually results in isomerisation for 5 minutes plus the time it takes to drain.

So essentially they're adding late hops.

As for what you should do, I've tried hopping at flame out with a 10 min stand, a 20 min stand and chilling to 80 before the stand. Which is best? No idea. I haven't tried side by side, but none have stood out more than others, so I now just lob in the hops at flame out and get on with chilling.

[k1100t]

There's an interesting blog on the Port66 website Whirlpool Hopping – 80°C VS 100°C that was written by James Kemp.

Cheers,

Bob.

[jaroporter]

the reason there is so many differing opinions is because everyone's processes and tastes are different, so there is no "right" way to do this. just got to try different things and see what works best for you and your equipment. i no chill and today is a double brewday for me. both beers will be the same grist and bittering hops. the first will get a flameout addition and 30min rest. the second will get that last addition in the cube after the rest instead. then drunk side by side to see how much bitterness and flavour is extracted by each method, and stability of both

[Matt in Birdham]

As for what you should do, I've tried hopping at flame out with a 10 min stand, a 20 min stand and chilling to 80 before the stand. Which is best? No idea. I haven't tried side by side, but none have stood out more than others, so I now just lob in the hops at flame out and get on with chilling.

I must admit I have gone through exactly this process and have also reverted to "flameout and chill".

Was reading something recently about hop stands at 50c, or even hop additions to the FV pre ferment. Not tried either yet.

[Normski]

This question about flame out hops and cooling is something I’ve been working on for the last year. I just didn’t like the idea of 5 min hops being left in 100c wort for 30 mins and still think they were 5 mins hops. To me they were now 35 min hops.

For years I used to cool to 80c then add aroma hops, But still didn’t get very much aroma from them.

Until about 12 months ago, I had struggled to make very hoppy beers.
I tried many different methods for years, but just couldn’t get that big hoppy flavor and aroma.
I started to experiment, I tried loads of late hops, but found it didn’t work very well, and that was using silly amounts of late hops. 200g plus late hops in 25l.

This is how I have finally managed to brew hoppy beers.
The changes that I have done, that work for me are as follows.
I add flavor hops at 15 mins.
I add flavor/aroma hops at 5 mins.
At flame out, I cool Hard and Fast. As quick as possible.
I use an immersion cooler and stir the wort. This is so my hops timings are accurate and controllable.
I ferment, then transfer to a keg as a secondary.
I transfer to a corny and add 2 ml of hop Oil.

Norm

[f00b4r]

Norm,

I know we were talking about this on the NE night out but I don't think I asked you how long you take to cool your wort.

[Normski]

Norm,

I know we were talking about this on the NE night out but I don't think I asked you how long you take to cool your wort.

Hi Craig
It probably takes me around 15-20 mins to cool from 100c down to 25ish.
Norm

[f00b4r]

Oh that's easily achievable with the BM cooler with a half open tap. Iain had the water on full blast last brew with about 28L in the BM and it went down to 25C in about 6-7 minutes. I had to drop the water pressure though as it was threatening to burst the end off the connectors; I think with some added clamps I might be able to run it full blast to pitching temp.
The BM immersion chiller is a beast.

[simon12]

This all seems to agree with what I suspected that whirlpool hops are fairly pointless.