Low DO Brewing

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chris2012
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Low DO Brewing

Post by chris2012 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:38 am

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone has read this pdf (On Brewing Bavarian Helles:
Adapting to Low Oxygen Brewing):

http://forum.germanbrewing.net/download ... 3d0f9f539c

To me, the pdf unfortunately doesn't seem to provide any evidence that their techniques provide a noticeable difference
in terms of taste (There's no blind taste test with/without their technique for the same recipe).

Also it seems unclear how they arrive at specific numbers, such as 100mg/L of sodium metabisulfite.

It would also be interesting to see how different PPMs of DO actually effect the resulting beer.

Also it seems like they believe their method is the only way to brew a Helles, which seems a bit odd to me:
"Simply put, you cannot make a proper Helles without employing a low oxygen brewing process."

It seems they're also advising not to sparge (unless you follow their method for sparging), which I presume could reduce efficiency.

"Low oxygen brewing completely transforms the flavor of every malt, but es-
pecially caramel malts." -- It would be nice to have some evidence for this.

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... lager.html is worth reading, from the great Michael Tonsmeire.

Cheers
Chris

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Jocky
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Re: Low DO Brewing

Post by Jocky » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:06 am

Until I see someone doing a comparison with even a little bit of rigor around it I'm highly sceptical.

Part of my problem is that they place equal importance on every step of the process, whereas I believe that most problems with oxygen occur on the cold side, before going to more extreme methods of deoxygenating the mash etc.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

chris2012
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Re: Low DO Brewing

Post by chris2012 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:21 am

Yeah exactly, I'm of the same opinion with respect to the cold side.

This is interesting:

"German breweries routinely boil under pressure for as little as 30 minutes, and
target evaporation rates of 4% [4]. Don’t worry about DMS ending up in your
beer, as 8-10% evaporation is more than sufficient."

I've had one German beer, which tasted very sweet-corny wonder if that's why.

chris2012
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Re: Low DO Brewing

Post by chris2012 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:41 am

Just been reading this on HSA - http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/26/hot-si ... t-results/

If anyone knows of any papers on HSA too, I'd be interested.

BenB

Re: Low DO Brewing

Post by BenB » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:28 pm

Were the original helles low oxygen?????

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Hanglow
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Re: Low DO Brewing

Post by Hanglow » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 am

There's a massive thread on HBT on it . Quite a few modern breweries do try and reduce HSA, then you look at old breweries whose processes positively encourages it and they seem to still make great ales - whether or not they would make a great helles is another matter, most british breweries can't make a decent lager to save themselves. I also wonder what type of breweries my favourite german lagers are made by, certainly some must be very modern but most of my favourite ones are in Franconia and quiet small/old so may not practice low DO

The two sources they like quoting the most are Narziss and Kunze
W. Kunze. Technology Brewing and Malting. VLB Berlin, 2007.
L. Narziss. Abriss der Bierbrauerei. Wiley-VCH, 2005.

chris2012
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Re: Low DO Brewing

Post by chris2012 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:56 am

Cheers Hanglow!, I'll see if I can obtain those.

BrannigansLove
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Re: Low DO Brewing

Post by BrannigansLove » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:01 pm

I've tried this (to the extent that my system allows), and you definitely end up with lighter wort at the end of things. I used a grainfather, and tried to minimise the sparging process, but still used my copper CF chiller, and used bakers yeast and a little dextrose to remove the oxygen from the mash/sparge water. I was making IPA's, so can't really say they turned out more malty, but the hop aroma seemed to stick around longer. I did experience a drop in efficiency (70%, down from 75-80%) whilst following the process. The AHA forum has quite a few members that have tried the process, and have reported improved malt flavour, so I think there must be something in it. To be honest, it isn't much more effort than the standard approach, the use of SMB and ascorbic acid is what is performing the majority of the work minimising oxygen uptake once the mash/sparge water has been initially deoxygenated.

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Kev888
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Re: Low DO Brewing

Post by Kev888 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:13 pm

It makes sense to avoid oxygenation post-fermentation. I don't really believe 'normal' amounts of hot side aeration make much difference, but avoiding excessive/unnecessary amounts is no hardship, so it doesn't hurt.

When we start to talk about special measures though, where these involve more work and especially where they negatively impact the brewing process (such as efficiency of grain or hop extraction) then for me compelling evidence is needed that the benefits justify the short-comings. Currently I don't believe that exists for Home Brewing processes and our subsequent packaging/maturing/storage/dispensing practices.

Which isn't to say that evidence shouldn't be sought in case it can be found, or that it couldn't apply in specific circumstances. But in itself, extrapolating from different commercial processes, different styles of beer and brewing, and other individual's beliefs is currently little more than guesswork. Which IMO shouldn't unduly distract brewers who have yet to properly nail any key aspects of home-brewing 'known' to impact quality or consistency.
Kev

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