Beer turning bitter during conditioning

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andyisavinit

Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by andyisavinit » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:06 pm

Hope you can help shed some light on this or maybe you've experienced similar.

I brewed 3 batches one every weekend back to back. Kegged the first and bottle the other 2 batches.

Number 1 kegged beer tastes great (golden and hoppy). Has improved with age (3-4weeks) as beer normally does.

Number 2 batch (graham wheeler Timothy Taylor landlord clone) was bottled and 1 week later while still warm conditioning tasted great. Really good malt flavour even though it was still very young. It now has been cold conditioning for 3 weeks, I've been tasting a bottle every 3-4 days over this period and it turned bitter on week 2, quite pronounced and quite suddenly. It's really quite harsh and unpleasant. Very disappointing. Now week 3 , nearly week 4 and it's still nasty. I over carbed it which I believe doesn't help but it wouldnt cause this much bitterness. If I make the beer flat is does help but it's still not as it should be.

Number 3 batch is now going the same way. It's a smash mosaic recipe I made. Tasted clean with no off flavours just a bit green/young after 1 week warm conditioning. As before I've been sampling every 3-4 days and the bitterness is now coming in again. Just it's taken a week longer to raise its ugly head, and it's not quite as harsh. But it's there! Not sure yet if it's going to become more harsh.

I've experienced harshness from high mash ph before but that was years ago and it was bitter from the outset. My mash ph was good in these batches.

ive considered that over stirring mash can cause bitterness, oxygenating the beer could. What about the conditioning? The cold conditioning phase hasn't been too consistently cool. It's probably been 10-15 degrees over the last 2 weeks. My bottles were clean. If not then at least one bottle should taste good but they're all the same.

I've been all grain brewing for about 3 years and done many batches and suffered infections, but never had beer that tasted great but turns really bitter 2 weeks later. For me if its an infected batch it tastes off from the start and gets progressively worse. Not great to start with.

Could it be my bottling wand? Have I come across a new type of infection that I'm yet to experience that is caused at bottling stage and takes a week or 2 to present itself. It's a harsh bitterness that overwhelms any hop flavour or malt flavour. The beer is nice and clear.

I've got over 40 bottles and over 20 of which are bordering on undrinkable.

I'd be very interesting in your thoughts or experiences with similar.

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Wonkydonkey
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Re: Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by Wonkydonkey » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:30 am

I think you have a few issues, not just 1.
It could be your getting tannins in your beer, it could also be oxised by bottling, although you don't say if your force carbing or priming and carbing in the bottle.
It could also be, as the hops fade the bitterness that always has been there come to the front.
It could be all 3.
But as with all things try to eliminate one thing at a time. :wink:

I know someone that had great beer in a keg and then bottled it with a b-gun and then had crap beer a week or so later, cos the bottles were not flushed with co2 :shock:

That's my thoughts, but others may think differently.
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andyisavinit

Re: Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by andyisavinit » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:30 am

Thx for the reply.

I batch prime my bottling bucket then fill bottles. What I do is boil approx 80 - 90 grams of brewing sugar for 10 mins to sanitise, then add this when still hot to the bottom of the bottling bucket then through the tap(not syphoning) i fill the bucket from the fermentor. So the cool beer does mix with hot sugar/water sulution when I first open the tap. But Ive done it like this for ages and had no problems.

It's not hop fade as one batch is very hoppy and Ive never experience this quick a drop off in hop flavour.

I read that oxidising causes a cardboard type flavour and again Ive bottled the same way for years - so doesn't seem likely. It's a harsh bitterness.

I think it must be an infection at bottling stage that takes 2-3 weeks to manifest itself into off a bitter off flavour. So I now suspect the tap from the fermentor, the tube I use to transfer, the bottle wand and my bottle cleaning. I can't see it being the bottle cleaning as I was quite anal each time. I soaked them in vwp for about 10 mins, then rinsed thoroughly and finally gave them all a squirt of starsan.

With the tap from the fermentor how do you guys clean it. I just soak a clean cloth in starsan and poke it up - ooh er - the tap hole and wiggle it about.

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Meatymc
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Re: Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by Meatymc » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:43 am

Can only add that I did the Graham Wheeler (so-called) Landlord clone to bottle and had the same problem - the beer was always a TTL in name only in any case. Could well have been my fault in the brewing although it's the only all-grain brew so far that I've had this problem with.

Having said that, I might be a bit biased with my 2 locals in the 70's and 80's being a Timothy Taylors and a Theakstons - and Theakstons before they cocked-up trying to expand which started the downward spiral to the Scottish & Newcastle ownership.

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Re: Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by Hogarth » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:12 am

Have you taken a gravity reading?

andyisavinit

Re: Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by andyisavinit » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:47 am

Hogarth wrote:Have you taken a gravity reading?
Do you mean now it's in bottles. So make the beer flat then measure yeh?

Good idea! If it's quite low then this is a sign of infection isn't it?

The final grav was 1.012 / 1.013 iirc.

I'll report back.

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Re: Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by jaroporter » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:38 pm

But also if the yeast is just slowly finishing the last couple of gravity points then that can explain sweet malty flavours being replaced by bitter flavours and overcarbing. Sometimes just one point can make quite a difference ive found
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Re: Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by orlando » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:37 pm

The last two posts were what I was thinking about as I read the thread. Priming sugar is going to encourage yeast to consume any unfermented sugars in the wort as well as the sugar as well, assuming it is pure sucrose, the whole lot. This will lower the body, thinning the beer and reducing sweetness to offset the bitterness. It could still be a wild yeast infection too. What is the expected attenuation range of the yeast you used Check this and then degas a sample of finished beer and check the gravity. I think the level of carbonation should also give you a clue, is it fizzier than usual? If it is you're on the right track. Whatever, it is a good idea to bleach the hell out of everything your ber comes into touch with on the cold side.
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andyisavinit

Re: Beer turning bitter during conditioning

Post by andyisavinit » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:05 pm

Its been a week or so since I last posted.

So update is that I took a grav reading and the beers down to 1.008. Final grav before I primed was 1.012 or 1.013. So it's dropped maybe a few more points that youd expect. The starting grav was 1.046 using wlp 007.

But the beer is now undrinkable - it has a nasty taste to it which I cannot describe - it is infected - I assume its a wild yeast infection? It is over gassy too (but i did overprime this particular batch by mistake anyway so hard to tell how much more gassy than usual).

The other batch I did that I suspected was going the same way has come back to me and now tastes pretty good. So all is good in the world again. Just 20 bottles of the other to ditch.

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