Protein Rest for a bigger Saison?

[Norik]

I'm planning out my next beer, a high(ish) ABV Saison.
I've built my own recipe, which I think I'm happy with. However I'm swithering on the mash schedule, and whether to include a Protein Rest or not.

Any advice welcome.

The recipe I've built is:

Grains:

• 5.00 kg Pilsner(77.2 %)
• 0.50 kg Munich Malt (7.7 % )
• 0.50 kg Wheat Malt (7.7 % )
• 0.40 kg Table Sugar (6.2 %)
• 0.04 kg Black Malt (0.6 %)
• 0.04 kg Oats, Flaked (0.6 %)

Hops:

• 25g Magnum [14.00 %] - 60min
• 20g Saaz [3.00 %] - 15min
• 40g Saaz [3.00 %] - 0min

Misc:

• Whirlfloc and nutrient - 15 min
• 15g Juniper Berries - 5min

Yeast:

• 2 x Bell Saison (rehydrated)

Mash:

• 55C for 10 minutes (which I'm not sure on)
• 63C for 60min
• 68C for 30min

Additional Info:

• BIAB, Full volume, No Sparge
• Boil = 75min
• Target OG = 1.075
• Target IBU = 36
• Expected FG = 1.011 to 1.004
• Fermentation started at 18C, then ramped up to 28C over a few days after things have kick off.

[Hanglow]

I don't think a protein rest would be needed, modern pilsner malts are all pretty well modified although I see you have wheat and oats there too, is that why you want to do one?

I did a step mash with one of my last saisons but it had close to 100% bo pils malt and I had great clarity, head retention and dryness - although the yeast was belle saison too which seems to rip through everything

I did 62C and 71C about 45mins each

[Jocky]

No, you don't, you only need a protein rest it when you have a lot of unmalted, poorly modified or high protein grain in your grist. Even then I'd only mash the problem grain with a similar weight of well modified malt before bringing it up to saccharification temperature and adding the rest of the well modified malt. The only unmodified malt you have there is the oats, and only a tiny amount at that - I doubt they will provide anything to the beer.

I'd certainly do a rest at 63 and then up to 68 (or even 70) as you have planned - it'll provide the maximum dryness in your finished saison. Carbonate it well too - 3 volumes.

Your bitterness looks good, 35 IBU is plenty in a beer that is going to be that dry.

[serum]

Lots of American books bang on about how you shouldn't do it yet the Belgian breweries do. I've been doing it recently and going on the higher end of the scale, around 57 and suffering no loss in head retention. 15 mins at 57, 30 mins at 63 and 30 at the higher temp and then a mash out should get you that nice mix of malt flavour and dryness you want. I'm not sure 40g of oats will do all that much for the beer. Belle saison will get it pretty dry.

Out of interest have you tried juniper before in a saison? What's it like?

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[Norik]

Thanks for the opinions

I made my setup to do step mashes so doing/not steps is no great shakes. This time I think I'll mash in at 58C then almost immediately start raising the temp for the next step.

My reasons for choosing each of the grains:

• 5.00 kg Pilsner(77.2 %) = base malt.
• 0.50 kg Munich Malt (7.7 % ) = to increase Malty flavours.
• 0.50 kg Wheat Malt (7.7 % ) = to add a bit of mouth feel and help with head retention.
• 0.40 kg Table Sugar (6.2 %) = to bump the ABV. Although I might actually go for Demerara Sugar, any opinions on that?
• 0.04 kg Black Malt (0.6 %) = to darken the colour, without adding flavour.
• 0.04 kg Oats, Flaked (0.6 %) = for head retention, and I've always got a bag of porridge sitting anyways.

I opted for about the 35IBU mark, to balance the ABV, without being too bitter with what should be a dry beer.

I haven't tried the Juniper before, but hopefully 15g for 5min of the boil shouldn't be an overpowering flavour, and will add a layer to the Saison.


I'll bear it in mind about the carbonation level.

[serum]

Don't think there's a need for demerara sugar.

Your grain bill and ingredients are quite complicated for a step mashed saison. You'll get a good bit of flavour from a decent mash schedule and just pilsner in one of these.

Some brewers add oats and wheat to compensate for how thin a single infusion saison can be. Step mashing can get you that body and head retention without the need for extra ingredients.

Take dupont or duvel. Best head and great beer but just pilsner.

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[McMullan]

Out of interest have you tried juniper before in a saison? What's it like?

I use juniper berries in a Norwegian inspired farmhouse ale, with Kveik yeast. From my notes, 10g (crushed) at 10min in a 21L batch. I made a note to add 15g next time. It's very nice with Aurora hops and freshly crushed coriander seeds, I think. I do like G&T, though Probably nice with Saison yeast too.