Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

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patwestlake
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Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by patwestlake » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:39 pm

I normally boil for 60 minutes and have used different hops for bittering as per the various recipes. It occurs to me that whilst I'm extracting the alpha acids, I'm also boiling off all the aroma and flavour - to then be added back in at 15/10/5/FO as appropriate. Does it therefore matter what I actually use for bittering as long as they're fresh and I follow the %AA vs target IBU. I have recently learned, for instance, that Thornbridge use Nugget exclusively for bittering in most if not all their beers.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Secla » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:12 pm

I use magnum mostly, I doubt most could tell the difference

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by simple one » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:01 pm

Yes. The bittering hop pack a lot of flavour.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Manngold » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:08 pm

I was always under the impression that the later the edition of the hop to the boil, the more aroma it imparts and the less bittering. But, I have really commented so I can track the responses as I am also interested.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Jambo » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:19 pm

OP, your theory is consistent with everything I have read - basically that AA is AA irrespective of hop variety and everything else gets boiled off within 60 mins.

It is also consistent with my experience - I recently made a Wai Iti poor man's single hop pale ale, which used Challenger for bittering. It was lovely. A thread about it and this debate was touched on if you search my posts.

I suspect some of the big 'craft' brewers must be doing this as well, their brews wouldn't be very economic otherwise.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by patwestlake » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:47 pm

Hi Jambo - that's the basis for my question. Economics. Why would a brewery use expensive hops like Citra for bittering unless they had to (single hop beers etc) when they can choose based on %AA/£. Unless there are "rules" for certain hops eg those that can retain flavour over a 60 minute boil, then surely Nugget or Apollo are the go-to bittering hops to leave bucks for the glitterati of the hop world?

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Kev888 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:55 pm

Over the years my opinion on this has changed a little; I now accept that 'some' bittering hops can impart noticeable flavour to the finished beer. So in order to use a generic bittering variety then selecting a clean one (such as magnum) will leave the late hops free to control/dominate hop flavour without interference.

IMO this is a very suitable approach for homebrewers who brew a wide range of different recipes. I also believe that where budget is a factor, it is better to choose more efficient (and so fewer) bittering hops in order that late hop additions can be maximised.

Of course, if you brew the same recipe repeatedly and/or can spend whatever you like on hops, then feel free to try more specifically flavoured types for bittering. You may find that you can spot the difference and prefer it.
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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Sadfield » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:38 pm

Technically bittering hops choice does affect flavour. Each hop has a varying ratio of different alpha acids, which when boiled isomerise into different iso-alpha acids, not one universal bittering acid. Of these alpha acids, Humulene has aboiling point around that of water, so it is debatable whether this is totally isomerised given the variables of hop utilisation, boil vigour and time. Hops also contain Beta acids, or lupulones, which tend to convert into some bitter and non-bitter agents. So no two bittering hops are the same.

In practical terms this makes only a small difference and is usually masked by late hop additions. The fact that commercial brewers use cheaper, high alpha hops suggests that the trade off is worth it.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Dennis King » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:55 pm

I think the variety of hop does make a difference. I find hops like WVG and Target can have a harshness.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Jambo » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:40 am

patwestlake wrote:Why would a brewery use expensive hops like Citra for bittering unless they had to (single hop beers etc) when they can choose based on %AA/£.
Indeed - taking it a step further and without wanting to de-rail the thread I wonder if trading standards (or anyone else) even have a definition of single-hop ale and would intervene if different bittering additions were used. How would they know/prove it...?

Also thanks to the other more experienced posters for their input, interesting stuff indeed.

There will be more experimentation in this area as exotic hop prices continue to rise I expect.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by RobP » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:50 am

Try making a beer with a huge amount of EKG or Fuggles to achieve the IBU you're after. You will taste them.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Kev888 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:02 am

For very hoppy styles it could even be argued that the use of bittering hops is in itself an economy. Using sufficient late hops to achieve all the IBUs can really pack in the flavour. Though it would be inappropriate for many beers, so this isn't a general recommendation.
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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by Bigbud78 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:21 am

Dont a lot of the commercial guys use hop extract now ? I've read that you can tell the difference between a magnum and chinook bittered beer so I do think it matters yes.

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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by orlando » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:09 am

A proper English IPA is more about hop flavour than hop aroma. Looking at The Durden Park Beer Circle recipes there is very little emphasis on hops other than at the beginning of the boil. Dry hopping is mentioned as "if required". So all the bittering and flavour comes from the hops going into the start of the boil.
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Re: Does it matter what I use for a bittering hop?

Post by RobP » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:23 am

orlando wrote:A proper English IPA is more about hop flavour than hop aroma. Looking at The Durden Park Beer Circle recipes there is very little emphasis on hops other than at the beginning of the boil. Dry hopping is mentioned as "if required". So all the bittering and flavour comes from the hops going into the start of the boil.
So, just to be clear on this, you're advocating not using bittering only hops for this style? If so, I mostly agree with you.
Historic IPA recipes often had 30 minute hops additions and small quantities of dry hopping in the cask but your assertion is generally correct. We must consider, though, what would historic brewers have done with the style had they access to the variety of hops available now?

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