Dry hopping and phenols

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Brew_face
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Dry hopping and phenols

Post by Brew_face » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:14 am

Is it just me that has bad experiences with dry hopping and WLP001-US05-1056? I've done about 25 batches so far of different styles but whenever I add hops to the fermenter the very next day the beer just turns into a phenolic soup, harshly bitter, metallic etc. Today will be my sixth batch down the sink due to this problem. I've successfully dry hopped with other yeast strains but always have trouble with the chico strain.
I have tried to weed out the issue and have so far gotten rid of all chlorine based cleaners, plastic fermenters, I only use bottled water, treat pH of mash and sparge water, oxygenate with pure O2, crush my own conditioned grains, monitor pH of finished beer before hops go in and usually 4.3-4.5 pH.
I usually add about 100g of hops to the primary after a couple of days of stable FG usually 6-7 days in. I regularly taste samples and always tastes great before hops go in. Hops are stored sealed in the freezer and always the latest harvest.
I'm not a secondary guy and wondering whether this may make a difference? Any advice what the issue could be or something else I can try would be appreciated.

Bigbud78
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Re: Dry hopping and phenols

Post by Bigbud78 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:31 am

I've had that taste a few times recently and there is a thread about someone else who has too, for me its always been present before I dry hop. I put it down to too much hop matter from kettle getting in FV, my latest batch I used a hop spider and dry hopped with 200 grams. Not metallic taste.

Brew_face
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Re: Dry hopping and phenols

Post by Brew_face » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:01 am

Mine sounds slightly different as it's always straight after dry hopping. I'm beginning to think its some interaction with the hop polyphenols and yeast still in suspension. I did a batch and added a hop tea before kegging which turned out great although not as good as a dry hopped beer. For next batch I might try fining with gelatin in the primary before transferring to secondary and dry hopping see how that works out.

nastyphoenix

Re: Dry hopping and phenols

Post by nastyphoenix » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:37 pm

Sorry to hear of that problem. What hops are you using and what quantities? What stage are you adding them to the primary? If you are not racking to a secondary and leaving the beer to condition on top of the trub, it might be that the proteins in the trub are breaking down to cause the off flavour.

My advice would be to rack to a secondary when your bubbler bubbles about once per minute, then add the dry hops to the conditioner which should be left at room temp (or 16 - 18C) for a few days then chill it. I chill in a fridge but if you don't have that put it somewhere cold.

If you are using a muslin bag for the hops, make sure you boil it before putting in the hops as infection could come from there. Personally I prefer to dump in pellets loose which then sink.

Brew_face
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Re: Dry hopping and phenols

Post by Brew_face » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:29 pm

Hi Nastyphoenix. I'm typically using a total of 100g and that can be a mixture of hops. My last batch was dry hopped with 75g citra and 25g amarillo pellets loose straight into the primary after 7 days which usually coincides with a stable FG for a couple of days. Maybe I need to leave it alone for a another week to let some yeast settle out? Is it in someway stressing the yeast or is this just polyphenols binding with protein? I have made some successful hoppy beers, my last NEIPA with Wyeast 1387 had loads of hops in the primary. The common denominator of the bad batches is the WLP001 - chico yeast.
I agree, my next step is to add the hops to a secondary and leave for a week.

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