An incredibly boring beer

Get advice on making beer from raw ingredients (malt, hops, water and yeast)
User avatar
Eric
Under the Table
Posts: 1938
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:18 am
Location: Sunderland.

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Eric » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:34 pm

OK Sadfield, please would you give as full an explanation as you care of where I'm going wrong with this of my recent beers.

This was my attempt at an NEIPA. It was not done exactly as advised, but the recipe was for all practical purposes the same using my usual procedures with avoidance of silly things. One such case was the use of oats without bittering hops. Worts made with modest amount of oats will go rancid without the sanitising influence of being well boiled with hops present and beers after normal fermentation have short shelf lives.This I believe to be the main cause for it being said that NEIPAs must be drank soon. I used a small amount of fresh cone hops to bitter and while the beer changed with time, it remains drinkable and not in the least tainted. All the initial photographs in that thread showed something akin to light coloured mud and unlike beer to my eyes and as you might see, unlike what I produced.

This was it being syphoned from the FV after a mass of hop cones had been taken off the top and squeezed dry over the waiting cask. The equal mass of pellet hops are on the bottom of the FV and well outbid the space taken by the then unsalvageable yeast. Hop oils and residues can be seen on the surface of the fermented wort and on the side of the FV, but they readily separated.
RIMG0065.JPG
This was the last from the FV. The yeast and hop residues are now sedimenting at a slower rate than usual but the spoon can already be seen.
RIMG0066.JPG
This was the same beer after it had cleared, it took much longer than usual. Jim might say what he thought about it if he pops in. It was the strong and very hoppy one just inside the door. If I recall correctly, you said you would have tried more had you known about it earlier in the evening.
R0010095.JPG
Will you tell me I'm doing wrong?
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

User avatar
Dennis King
Telling everyone Your My Best Mate
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:52 pm
Location: Pitsea Essex

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Dennis King » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:31 pm

A few years back for a significant birthday my son gave me a years subscription to Beers 52 a company that sends you a box of assorted craft beers each month. Being a more traditional brewer and drinker I had not tried many craft beers up to then but was quite happy to go into this with an open mind. They supplied a mixture of British, American and European beers with a magazine containing tasting notes. The thing that I found was how much they all tasted the same. They would have pale ales, porters, lagers etc all hopped to a degree where all you could taste was overpowering hops sometimes to the point where the bitterness was so overpowering the beer was virtually undrinkable. Reading the magazine I got the impression most of what was written was total bollocks. You would have 8 or 9 bottles all being described as if they were a new revelation in the beer world where in fact you would be hard pressed to find any difference between them. At the end of the year the story of the Emperors new clothes came to mind.

User avatar
Jim
Site Admin
Posts: 9849
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:00 pm
Location: Washington, UK

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Jim » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:37 pm

Eric wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:34 pm
OK Sadfield, please would you give as full an explanation as you care of where I'm going wrong with this of my recent beers.

This was my attempt at an NEIPA. It was not done exactly as advised, but the recipe was for all practical purposes the same using my usual procedures with avoidance of silly things. One such case was the use of oats without bittering hops. Worts made with modest amount of oats will go rancid without the sanitising influence of being well boiled with hops present and beers after normal fermentation have short shelf lives.This I believe to be the main cause for it being said that NEIPAs must be drank soon. I used a small amount of fresh cone hops to bitter and while the beer changed with time, it remains drinkable and not in the least tainted. All the initial photographs in that thread showed something akin to light coloured mud and unlike beer to my eyes and as you might see, unlike what I produced.

This was it being syphoned from the FV after a mass of hop cones had been taken off the top and squeezed dry over the waiting cask. The equal mass of pellet hops are on the bottom of the FV and well outbid the space taken by the then unsalvageable yeast. Hop oils and residues can be seen on the surface of the fermented wort and on the side of the FV, but they readily separated.

RIMG0065.JPG

This was the last from the FV. The yeast and hop residues are now sedimenting at a slower rate than usual but the spoon can already be seen.

RIMG0066.JPG

This was the same beer after it had cleared, it took much longer than usual. Jim might say what he thought about it if he pops in. It was the strong and very hoppy one just inside the door. If I recall correctly, you said you would have tried more had you known about it earlier in the evening.

R0010095.JPG

Will you tell me I'm doing wrong?
As I said at the time, Eric, this was a perfectly good beer. Nothing wrong with it that I could detect.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Philip K. Dick

JBK on Facebook
JBK on Twitter
JBK Newsletter Archive!

demig
Hollow Legs
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:04 pm

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by demig » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:44 pm

Dennis King wrote:A few years back for a significant birthday my son gave me a years subscription to Beers 52 a company that sends you a box of assorted craft beers each month. Being a more traditional brewer and drinker I had not tried many craft beers up to then but was quite happy to go into this with an open mind. They supplied a mixture of British, American and European beers with a magazine containing tasting notes. The thing that I found was how much they all tasted the same. They would have pale ales, porters, lagers etc all hopped to a degree where all you could taste was overpowering hops sometimes to the point where the bitterness was so overpowering the beer was virtually undrinkable. Reading the magazine I got the impression most of what was written was total bollocks. You would have 8 or 9 bottles all being described as if they were a new revelation in the beer world where in fact you would be hard pressed to find any difference between them. At the end of the year the story of the Emperors new clothes came to mind.
Found that with beer52 myself, most of them just tasted of too many hops and carbonic acid!
Join the BrewChat - open minds and adults only :wink: - Click here

User avatar
Sadfield
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Sadfield » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:05 pm

Eric wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:34 pm
OK Sadfield, please would you give as full an explanation as you care of where I'm going wrong with this of my recent beers.
Forgive me Eric, but I have not bothered to read past this line. I do not recall at any point where I have said you are going wrong, nor do I need Jims verification that you have brewed a tasty beer. I fully expect the later, and without the benefit of trying the beer I can not comment on how it compared to beers of the style or how the taste, aroma and mouthfeel matched what is considered characteristic of the style. Notice how I did not mention appearance, I personally think there is a danger on both sides of people getting hung up on this, and it is not actually key to style. You have brewed a beer based on your own philosophy and objectives, I have not and will not criticises that. This however has been my issue (mainly with the posts from Mcmullan and IPA), the criticism of other brewers with a disregard that they may see brewing from a different perspective, and may have a differing set of objectives when brewing a beer, and make a trade of one parameter in favour of another. I really do not understand why people are so derogatory towards the product, brewers and consumers of a beer style they have no interest in. Particularly on homebrew forums where the range and availability of products available to us has massively increased due to the popularity of 'over-hopped' and murky craft beer. I do wish people would get the opportunity to brew a beer commercially, and out amongst the paying public, they may then have more respect for the professionals.

User avatar
Sadfield
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Sadfield » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:45 am

Having a little more time to look at this, my view about perspective is illustrated by your statement over the lack of bittering hops. When viewed from a British cask beer perspective this would be silly. However, Americans don't have this cask tradition and US IPA culture is entirely different, where it is common for IPA drinkers to buy and consume beers within days of packaging, whilst all the volatile aroma is still in the beer. Packaging that occurs shortly after crash cooling and force carbonation, not long cask conditioning. There is little need to brew beers with shelf life if the beers are consumed within a shorter timescale. It is not a case that they cannot brew beers to last, as they successfully do it with other styles. Pretty similar to the cask/keg debate in UK styles, filtered and pasteurised keg beers will keep longer at the pump but the trade off is a less complex beer.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk


McMullan
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 674
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:48 pm
Location: Here

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by McMullan » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:34 am

Sadfield wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:05 pm
I do wish people would get the opportunity to brew a beer commercially, and out amongst the paying public, they may then have more respect for the professionals.
Getting paid alone doesn't necessarily make someone a professional. A 'professional' to me is a person competent in an activity that requires skills and knowledge. I can think of dozens of breweries I'd like to spend a day at. Somewhere like Fuller's or Harvey's :D

User avatar
Sadfield
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Sadfield » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:46 am

Good choices. I'm looking forward to trying the NEIPA Fullers brewed the other week.

Image

Interesting lack of bittering hops with an oat grist.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk



McMullan
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 674
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:48 pm
Location: Here

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by McMullan » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:57 am

Sadfield wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:46 am
Good choices. I'm looking forward to trying the NEIPA Fullers brewed the other week.

Image

Interesting lack of bittering hops with an oat grist.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Hopefully, they'll let it go bright to make it presentable then filter it to possibly extend its shelf-life :D

Capped
Under the Table
Posts: 1926
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:08 am
Location: Barnsley,SouthYorkshire

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Capped » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

All I know is that if the steward of our local WMC served up a cloudy pint of his best John Smith's, they'd be brawling in the street.

super_simian
Piss Artist
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:11 am

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by super_simian » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:27 pm

Eric wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:34 pm
Worts made with modest amount of oats will go rancid without the sanitising influence of being well boiled with hops present and beers after normal fermentation have short shelf lives.
Got some solid evidence for this claim?

User avatar
Eric
Under the Table
Posts: 1938
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:18 am
Location: Sunderland.

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Eric » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:13 pm

super_simian wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:27 pm
Eric wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:34 pm
Worts made with modest amount of oats will go rancid without the sanitising influence of being well boiled with hops present and beers after normal fermentation have short shelf lives.
Got some solid evidence for this claim?
Yes.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

User avatar
Eric
Under the Table
Posts: 1938
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:18 am
Location: Sunderland.

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Eric » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:34 pm

Sadfield wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:05 pm
I do wish people would get the opportunity to brew a beer commercially, and out amongst the paying public, they may then have more respect for the professionals.
You would be wrong to presume I'm not involved with a commercial brewery.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

WalesAles
Falling off the Barstool
Posts: 3080
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:07 pm
Location: South Wales UK. Soon to be out of the EU

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by WalesAles » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:35 pm

McMullan wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:57 am
Sadfield wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:46 am
Good choices. I'm looking forward to trying the NEIPA Fullers brewed the other week.

Image

Interesting lack of bittering hops with an oat grist.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Hopefully, they'll let it go bright to make it presentable then filter it to possibly extend its shelf-life :D

Sadfield,
I`m being pedantic here, why do you put a crossed line on your figure 7 as foreigners do, but you don`t write your 1`s
as foreigners do? A foreign 1 is totally different to our 1.
That is why the crossed line is on a foreign 7. [-X

WA

Sent from my Garden.

User avatar
Sadfield
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:16 pm

Re: An incredibly boring beer

Post by Sadfield » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:48 pm

WalesAles wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:35 pm
Sadfield,
I`m being pedantic here, why do you put a crossed line on your figure 7 as foreigners do, but you don`t write your 1`s
as foreigners do? A foreign 1 is totally different to our 1.
That is why the crossed line is on a foreign 7. [-X

WA

Sent from my Garden.
One did not write that one, WalesAles. Please take the issue up with Henry at Fuller's Brewery.

Post Reply

Return to “Grain Brewing Questions and Answers”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests