Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

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Starwave

Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

Post by Starwave » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:15 pm

Hello

I often get a unwanted flavour with my beers - a kind of sweet Belgian or Saison type tang. Usually this flavour is undetectable when I try a sample at bottling but is evident when the bottles are ready to drink. It's not a nasty taste and but I don't want it with my beers (mostly bitters).
What's perplexing is that some brews don't contain this flavour whilst others do. I have successfully made a few American style hop heavy pale ales and none of these have the flavour (possibly just coincidence). I've used various yeasts - dried, bought liquid yeasts and yeast recovered from bottles. The type of yeast used seems to have no influence on whether this off flavour will be present or not.
I recently built a fermentation fridge thinking maybe better temperature control would put an end to this tang but the one brew I've made with this set-up has the flavour.
I don't think I do anything remarkable when I make beer - mash for 90 minutes at about 66 deg. C, boil for between 75 and 90 minutes, use an immersion cooler and ferment at around 20 deg. I leave the brew for about 2 weeks and batch prime using 'brewing sugar' (glucose I suspect). I now use Star San for sanitising but used to use powder type soluble sanitisers.

Any advice or words of wisdom will be appreciated. If I could get shot of this random tang I'm pretty happy that my beers would be consistently good.
Cheers.

TheSumOfAllBeers
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Re: Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:59 pm

First point: you need to identify the off flavour. Consult one of the off flavour guides until you have narrowed down to a few candidates.

I would be interested to see this belgian/Saison sweet/tang that you talk about described in more detail.

The way you have written it, most posters will presume phenolic,which may not be the case and you will get time wasting general advice

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charliemartin
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Re: Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

Post by charliemartin » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:42 am

That's good advice, because a lot of threads go round in circles simply because no one really knows exactly what the off flavour is. One thing you haven't mentioned about your process is water treatment. What is your water like and how do you treat it, if you do?
With regard to the American style beers being okay, it's probably due to the high hopping level masking the off flavour.

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McMullan

Re: Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

Post by McMullan » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:14 pm

Give all your equipment (including the fridge) a thorough clean and a soak in a bleach solution. If the problem persists, look at your yeast handling. About how long do your fermentations take to reach FG?

Starwave

Re: Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

Post by Starwave » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:17 pm

Hello

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I did have a good plough through many off taste articles before writing my query and decided I couldn't really pin it down. However, having decided it must be one of those listed I do think phenolic is probably the one.

Regarding my water I used to boil it and lob some gypsum in. My last brew was different - I tested it using Salifert test kits - one for calcium and one for carbonate hardness / alkalinity. I then treated the water (all the water, around 40L, that I used for mashing and sparging) with calcium reducing solution and gypsum. I also used a campden tablet.
I don't think the hoppiness of the hop heavy beers I make would be enough to mask the off flavour and aroma. I've always used dried yeast for these and a relatively large grain bill (compared to most of my other beers) so they are stronger in alcohol.

I was thinking I should bleach bomb everything before I next brew up too.

One thing that I don't control particuarly well is the sparge temperature. I batch sparge and dare say the water I add may sometimes be a bit on the hot side or too cool. Not really sure how critical it is but I usually aim for around 75 deg. C in the tun. I expect cooler is probably less harmful than hotter?

Cheers

MTW
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Re: Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

Post by MTW » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:31 pm

As far as sparge issues go, then you're less likely to be getting tannins or pH issues with a batch sparge, unless the temperature of each mixed batch is going into the high 70s and up.

Are you pretty prompt getting the sparge water in after each drain?
Busy in the Summer House Brewery

Starwave

Re: Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

Post by Starwave » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:56 pm

Hello

Yes, I thought batch sparging can be more forgiving than fly sparging.
I do get the sparge water in pretty much as soon as I've drained the previous volume.

Cheers

Simonh82

Re: Unwanted 'Belgain or Saison' Flavours

Post by Simonh82 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 am

Belgian/Saison flavours make me think of a Brett infection. Brett works slowly so may not be apparent straight away.

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