Hopping advice

[Meatymc]

As things stand I'm still having to use the no-chill cube method but usually down to pitching temp following day or evening. I have read a lot on the subject of no-chill with the usual variances of opinion. One area many seem to say fall foul of this method is highly hopped brews - my favourite style, so I'm looking for a bit of guidance to try and get around that (perceived?) issue.

As things stand I add hops at the usual style/recipe intervals but then add a final ounce or so in a hop bag directly into the cube with the wort poured on top. Not the done thing to keep aroma but figured if the wort was so hot as to drive the oils off they had nowhere to go hence would be reabsorbed.

Not great timing as I'm now using only my own home-grown hops which of course are of an unknown quantity as far as AA% is concerned. However, only done a single brew just with my own and it was both under-bittered and lacking any real hop 'depth' so will be doubling up on the hop schedule.

Now my question......is it actually worth putting hops into the cube or would it be better to either do a hop tea when cooled and pitching in the FV - or even doing neither and simply dry-hopping when activity has died down?

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

I make hoppy beers & no chill.

You can't hop steep etc, as your IBU will sky rocket.

All my hops go in the last 5-10 mins. I calculate that no chill adds +20 mins of isomerisation.

So I am basically ramming hops in until I hit my IBU ceiling.

For my brew length, at 50+ L I will hit 35-40 IBU with only 100g ~8% AA hops.

Then I dry hop and hop tea in the FV. my latest pale ale had ~ 100g in the kettle, but 300g in the FV.

Cube hopping is worth it, but the results can be all over the place- you have trapped the myrcene.

[Meatymc]

Cheers SOAB. So to be clear, you don't put in any hops - at all - until the final 5-10 minutes or do you mean just the aroma hops with bittering at the usual style intervals?

Had hoped by now to have at least most of the process nailed down but using my own hops - of an unknown quality - has rather thrown that out of the window. Still, just means a bit more trial and error and more beer to consume!!

[MTW]

I stand (and hope) to be corrected by someone with more of a scientific background, but I'm not sure that 'trapping' volatile oils such as myrcene protects their character as such, any more than keeping a lid on the kettle would retain those in late additions. Will oxidation, which is faster at higher temperatures, not break them down into other compounds within the cube? I imagine that purging the cube with CO2, filling, letting it cool, and then oxygenating (if necessary) immediately prior to pitching may mitigate that to some unknown degree. Essentially, I would wonder whether the combination of high temperature and oxygen in a no chill cube would break down oils like myrcene, though I've seen some suggestion that the resulting compounds can still be aromatic anyway.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Cheers SOAB. So to be clear, you don't put in any hops - at all - until the final 5-10 minutes or do you mean just the aroma hops with bittering at the usual style intervals?

Had hoped by now to have at least most of the process nailed down but using my own hops - of an unknown quality - has rather thrown that out of the window. Still, just means a bit more trial and error and more beer to consume!!

For my hoppy aromatic styles no hops until the last 10 mins. I.e. APA/IPA

For other styles that just need a bittering charge, I use a conventional 60 min addition or just wing it.

Basically I set my IBU ceiling and fiddle with my timing and recipe SW until I hit it.

For your home grown hops you need to calibrate their bitterness versus a reference, with hop teas.

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

I stand (and hope) to be corrected by someone with more of a scientific background, but I'm not sure that 'trapping' volatile oils such as myrcene protects their character as such, any more than keeping a lid on the kettle would retain those in late additions.

Its a good hypothesis and worth putting to the test. There is no science behind it, as nobody in the industry is crazy enough to use passive cooling techniques like no-chill.

Will oxidation, which is faster at higher temperatures, not break them down into other compounds within the cube? I imagine that purging the cube with CO2, filling, letting it cool, and then oxygenating (if necessary) immediately prior to pitching may mitigate that to some unknown degree. Essentially, I would wonder whether the combination of high temperature and oxygen in a no chill cube would break down oils like myrcene, though I've seen some suggestion that the resulting compounds can still be aromatic anyway.

From my research, the aromatic oils in hops, when oxidised become bitter and lose their aromatic qualities. Its one of the main reasons why you store hops cool & sealed.

However, post boil, the wort is 90-95C. There is no dissolved oxygen. If you carefully transfer into cube, and totally fill the cube, you will minimise O2 pickup in the transfer, and this will protect the hops.

In practice, I am not noticing any oxidation of either wort or hops when I go to pitch. In theory there is a risk to all the hop oils and wort through no chill O2 pickup. In practice the standard advice for no-chill transfers (do it carefully and fill the cube/squeeze out the headspace) works to protect the beer from oxidation.

What I have noticed when I do cube hopping, is that:
1 - the hop character will be big at pitch time
2 - but unpredictable, especially bitterness additions
3 - a small amount of hops goes very far indeed and the aroma continues into the finished beer
4 - no grassy effects even with prolonged contact in the cube (hypothesis: the yeast cleans this up post pitch)

In the new year, I hope to make a hoppy style with something super fresh and powerful straight into the cube, and then layer up with more hops in the FV.

[Meatymc]

Started looking into this in more detail and, like everything else, there are rafts of opinions including a few award winning craft breweries in the US and Aus who use the method as a matter of course in certain styles.

Brewed last night including a double dose of my own hops into the cube. Into the fermenter tonight and will decide whether to dry hop and/or tea when things die down a bit. This will be my 26th all-grain brew and, apart from a porter I'm very happy with, means the 25th experiment!!