Efficiecy of hop spiders?

[Top Cat]

Good morning brewers.
I know this is an on going problem with whole hop separation after the boil, are the mesh spiders ok for extract efficiency or do they hold some of the qualities of the hops behind, also my local store tells me that loose hops form a good barrier for the hot/cold break matter. The one I was thinking of purchasing is a Grain Father that has larger perforations (800micron) than the more common 300 micron spiders. I don't generally use pellets so I don't think I will have a problem with anything troublesome getting through. At the moment I use a large fine mesh bag that fits over the top of the boiler, but I have to weigh that down as the rolling boil brings it to the surface. A false bottom would mean a major modification to my outlet tap, so I am thinking that hanging a spider from the side would solve a few problems.
Anybody with experience on using these?
Regards.

[Fil]

My experience with a hop spider both nylon net and SS Mesh is that the temperature within the spider is a few degrees below the bulk.. In order to address this i have used a lil brown solar pump to recirculate the liquor from the drain valve back up into the spider, with a net bag this will fill the bag and expand the volume of slightly cooler liquor,,

the resulting beers seem to be no different at all to my pallete than those brewed with loose hops, and the brewday runs smoother ..

[Kev888]

Your local store is correct; some filters can be blocked by the sticky break unless the hops are first given time to settle over them to form a filter bed. So if you have the hops in a spider or bag, preventing them settling, then it could cause problems (depending on your filter).

Quite often people who use hop spiders or bags use no kettle filter, partly for this reason. Pellets themselves can be tricky to filter without clogging, so they may warrant this approach.

However.. whole hops are much easier to filter, and in so doing form the additional and rather excellent filter bed mentioned above, allowing very clear wort to be run off from the kettle. You 'could' use bags and spiders with whole hops, possibly using a few more to make up for slightly reduced utilisation, but IMO it is a wasted opportunity - there would need to be a good reason before I'd personally choose to do this (of course, there may be one in some designs).

If a kettle filter is appropriate, it need not be a false bottom though; people commonly use mesh envelopes or long mesh/braid tubes attached to the tap outlet (or pickup tube) with generally great success. The main problems occur where the mesh tube or envelope is too small, or where time is not allowed for the hops to settle over the filter before running off.

[Top Cat]

Thanks for your help guys.
My problem stems from the tap on the boiler. As its a Burco catering type the tap hasn't a great flow volume and has clogged before using pellets.
I think what I will do is manage with a filter bag for a while, but long term purchase a ball valve for a tap and get the thread machined with two flats on to accept the hole in the boiler. I can then fit a bazooka mesh which will be the best solution.
I like the idea of the solar pump, I take it the panel is outside somewhere? I may rig one up temporarily.
Regards.

[Kev888]

Ah, that makes sense. Ordinarily I'd look at fitting a mesh filter to the burco outlet - a big mesh envelope shouldn't impede flow too much. But if you're thinking of improving/swapping the tap anyway then it would make sense to hold off and use bags/spiders in the interim.

The 'solar' pumps fil mentioned are called that because back in the day they were initially sold in the UK by the 'solar project' website, but most brewers use them on power supplies; they are available on ebay etc now too. Fil seems to get on with them okay, and they are quite cheap, but quite a few of us have had problems with them over time when pumping wort with particles in. There may be better alternatives these days (though not sure, as I moved up to bigger ones).

[Fil]

assuming its a Stainless steel burco and not an enamel jobby a 20mm Qmax punch @ cira £10 is a much simpler solution to resizing the drain hole for fitting something like a full bore ball valve to provide the maximum diameter for drain flow. Depending on your location a friendly brewer may be at hand to lend you one, they tend to sit in toolboxes once the brewery is built in most cases..

I have been drawing out the break material from the kettle with a token attempt at whirlpooling via a stir, even though my kettles return is designed for a wirlpool recirculation, i found my cfc to be sufficient to chill in a single pass, so Im not whirlpooling as intended on the drawing board. But with a 1/2" pipe fitting internal siphon (or elbow fitting) pointing down as the drain point, post boil the pattern of hot break sucked uot is limited to a 2-3" diameter centred on the drain.

The following pic is after the last dregs have been disturbed as i tipped forward to use the dirty dregs to push the last of the clean brew through the pump and cfc.. the pump stalls with air before the dirty slug hits the fv but it illustrates the sort of volume of hot break material you can expect with a hop spider containing all the hop debris



and a lil brown solar pump in action (no solar power im afraid, its powered with a 2a tattoo gun psu.. )


and a hop spider

[Fil]

btw wots deadspace ?? hehe

[orlando]

btw wots deadspace ?? hehe

What I leave behind the moment my crystal clear wort might look like it will be "contaminated" by trub.

[Top Cat]

Once again, thanks for your help. Because the hole in the boiler is 26.5mm dia with 21mm flats it's going to be difficult to modify. I even thought of blanking that hole off and cutting a new hole in to take a 1/2" bsp ball valve but cutting into a radial face might pose leakage problems. I've taken the old tap off know and am gong to drill and tap a 3/8 bsp hole to try a bazooka filter. What a pain in the backside!!!!!!!!!!! How much are the specialized 40ltr brewing pots with the thermometer built in etc?
Regards.

[Fil]

post a pic of the hole @top cat im confused ?? sometimes leaving original drain and taps in place as a 'backup' or thats what you can tell folk can be expedient letting you start from scratch if useful?? Forgive my ignorance but by radial face do you mean the curve of the diameter?? a Qmax punch is the tool for the job and you can make a real pigs ear out of its pilot hole if needed tho it shouldn't be too much of an issue, its a thin skin just use a punch/nail/screwdriver to bang in a centre mark for the drill point, whack it thru if you can to make the job a breeze (If whacking consider suitable bracing)..

@orlando, i do have deadspace in the cfc & pipework (< 1l), thankfully its enough volume to contain the dirty slug with the muck in it before the air kills the pump. the initial plan to mount the cfc to gravity drain into the fv post pumping was shelved after the first run.. Its nice to see an almost completely empty kettle post boil tho..

[nastyphoenix]

My brewing was turned around when I started using the hop spider. I've not found any difference in isomerisation. I do 23l batches and my spider is about 1/4 the size of the brew kettle, so I suppose if there are any issues which hop oil extraction you could get a bigger spider.

[Top Cat]

As I hadn't read your post until just Fil the tap is back on (temporarily, brewing tomorrow), so you would only see a back nut with an image. I think your suggestion of leaving the original tap as a back up is a better idea than modification. You were correct in your thinking of curvature of the boiler diameter, I can make a punch myself, I really don't have a lot to lose as the boiler owes me little anyway.
I've got hold of a spider and will give that a go short term.