Recipe calculations.

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Fat boy quiff

Recipe calculations.

Post by Fat boy quiff » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:19 pm

Hi all, I am going to do an AG recipe from brewdog's free catalog. My problem is that the recipe is for 20l and my brew volume is about 65l. I have never used a beer calculator and when I have looked at them online my eyes glaze over and I suddenly loose the will to live. Is there an easier option. In an ideal world I would want something where I put in 20l recipe and ask it to upscale to 65l. :D

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alexlark
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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by alexlark » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:24 pm

A quick and dirty would be to take the 20L recipe, divide by 4 and multiply by 13.

The longer way is to get some brewing software. With Beersmith you can plug the 20L figures in and scale to 65L. Beersmith is excellent. I was like you at one time and choose Beersmith as there are a lot of guides on how to set it up.
Last edited by alexlark on Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fat boy quiff

Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by Fat boy quiff » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:57 pm

In your first option would that mean each volume of say grain, hops, would be devided by 4 and multiplied by 12. So for example one of the grains is propino 3.3kg so that would be 9.9kg. One of the hops is Chinook and the quantity is 20g so that would be 60. Is that how it works?

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Kev888
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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by Kev888 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:37 pm

Ingredients largely increase proportionally with volume. You are doing 65/20 x the quantity, and so 3.3kg would become 65/20 x 3.3 = 10.7kg (roughly). Though that doesn't quite agree with alexlark's calculation so maybe he's doing something more subtle.

I say largely, as different brewing systems will have different characteristics; e.g. different people may need to start with slightly different mash volumes and quantities to end up with the same final results, and obviously Brewdog can't cater for that. So in an ideal world you would customise for things like your own mash efficiency, dead-spaces, evaporation rates and so on to better hit the target volumes, gravities etc.

Similarly, ingredients can differ. Hops in particular can have different bitterness (largely denoted by their percentage Alpha Acids) to those in the recipe, the same type just from different harvests and sources; it can be quite significant so ideally some attempt might be made to compensate for that. Grains can also differ in yield and intensity etc. though (with a few exceptions) not as profoundly as hops.

But if you are happy with an easier approximation and if your system is fairly typical, that may not matter hugely for a first stab at it. If you happen to know that things are less typical then perhaps just change the 65/20 a bit. With a bigger system then dead-space may often be proportionally lower, for instance, so 65/20 may be a little more than needed (maybe Alexlark is guestimating this for you with his numbers).
Last edited by Kev888 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MarkA
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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by MarkA » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:43 pm

Do it the easy way;

- download Beersmith

- enter the 20L recipe

- scale recipe up to 65L

- brew beer with correct hops and ingredients!!

Fat boy quiff

Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by Fat boy quiff » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:10 am

First, thanks to all who have replied to my post, much appreciated. One more question, do you have to purchase, beer smith, and if so is it a one off payment or a monthly, yearly, cost.

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Meatymc
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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by Meatymc » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:19 am

I use Beer Engine and have done since my 1st AG brew - always worked OK for me. Never paid owt so assume it's a Free download

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MarkA
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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by MarkA » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:40 am

Fat boy quiff wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:10 am
First, thanks to all who have replied to my post, much appreciated. One more question, do you have to purchase, beer smith, and if so is it a one off payment or a monthly, yearly, cost.
Beersmith is a one-off payment of approx £20 but you can download a free version to see how you get on with it first

Fat boy quiff

Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by Fat boy quiff » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:58 am

My little plant is traditional in design consisting of HLT of around 90 ltrs, a mash tun, and boiler. The mash tun will take up to around 40 pounds of milled grain, but I feel that above 30 pounds I get deminished return for the extra grain. So much so that I recently have started to split the grain 50-50 and do two mashes. This brew is 6.9% abv which is where this whole question came from, depending on the method of scaling up I use I know from previous brews on my plant I would not achieve this abv? I know some people would then say, well just put more grain through until you get the OG required, but then you deviate from the original recipe regards the ratio of grain to hops..... does this make sense to anyone? By the way the brew in question is Brewdogs 262 Vermont IPA V2.0.

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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by alexlark » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:20 pm

You can use the full version of Beersmith free for 30 days.

Take lots of measurements when you have a brew day so that you can tweak Beersmith and get accurate recipes & hit your numbers. Took me about 3 brews to dial it in and produce accurate results.

Fat boy quiff

Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by Fat boy quiff » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:02 pm

I will have to try Beersmith when I feel up to it, looks like once you get a hang of it it could be usefull. I just don't understand or have all of the information it asks for like water analyses and such like.

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MarkA
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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by MarkA » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:50 pm

You only need to put in your brewery spec (size/deadspace etc) and then build a recipe. It's got a lot of extras to play with, but you don't have to use them.

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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by alexlark » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:26 am

I'm sure I watched a YouTube clip which guides you through the setup. As for the water analysis, I don't use that. I'd say at best I use 40% of the features of the software.

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Kev888
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Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by Kev888 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:50 pm

Yes, software can be very useful, but it is just a dumb tool and will spew out results which may look plausible whether appropriate or not. So if used, it is important that the brewer takes the time to understand how to set up, use and interpret it properly (at least the aspects of it they are using).

In a similar manner, I would suggest it is not a substitute for understanding the basic principles involved in recipes and brewing; it is more of a companion to this. Which isn't to say that you must know everything up front, the learning process can be gradual - and fun. Just don't think of software as an alternative to learning.
Kev

Fat boy quiff

Re: Recipe calculations.

Post by Fat boy quiff » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:57 pm

All of the above have been both helpful and interesting to read, and thank you all for the input. I think it may be time to put a bit of meat on the bones of where I personally am regarding brewing.
I started brewing about 3-4 years ago and went straight into AG when I purchased my little stainless plant plus FV. I retired just under 2 years ago but before that I worked in a maltings. Though not a professional maltster (I was a maintenance engineer) we were required to take the malting exam and so gained a good deal of healthy knowledge regarding that part of the industry and perhaps explains why I chose to go straight to AG. I started to brew with the knowledge gained from forums such as this and a few books etc. My learning curve derives from brewing, making mistakes, trying to find the reason why something went wrong and try again. I have had some successes and failures but still enjoy brewing, all of which has been done on my own which is not a problem to me except that the learning curve is a relatively slow one. The difference this time is my son who lives away, has asked if he can come home for a couple of days and brew a beer. He has never brewed before. The beer he has chosen is the Brewdog 262 IPA V2.0 as mentioned above. It is this brew which has made me realise that My ability to brew other peoples recipes accurately is lacking and the fact that my son might expect to brew an exact clone straight off. So, as you can see I have some knowledge and experience of brewing but it has been done in virtual isolation and in a one dimensional manner. Perhaps it is time for me to embrace this technology to assist me in moving forward. As a result of these posts I have been on youtube and watched a few videos of using Beersmith. I must admit I am tempted.

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