Am I killing my enzymes?

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johnmac
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Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by johnmac » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:04 pm

After about 200 brews using a simple insulated mash tun, I've switch to HERMS for the last half a dozen brews. The main change I can see is a massive loss of efficiency, requiring about 30% more malt. My heat exchanger is a cheap 1.7 litre kettle with a copper coil for the beer to circulate through and pick up heat.

The water temperature in the kettle is getting up to 80c, which must be enough to deactivate the enzymes, so I'm wondering if this is the cause of my lost efficiency and how do others get on with HERMS/RIMS and the possibility of over heating the wort?

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john luc
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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by john luc » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:11 pm

I say yes. wort at 80 has no enzyme left to tell the tale. You need to look at your temp set up as all the target temp for mash is controlled by the exit temp of the wort leaving the HERMS
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johnmac
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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by johnmac » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:24 pm

I'm maintaining 66c as the wort enterers the tun, about 1 meter of silicone pipe after the kettle.

Fil
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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by Fil » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:33 pm

same insulated tun too?? are you prewarming the tun and striking at a good temp to achive your target mash temp still??

if your returning liquor is at a controlled 66c ?? then denaturing is unlikely as afaik most of the enzymes remain within the bulk of the grain, i would suggest perhpas getting the paddle in the mash a few times to give it a good stir and ensure your not chanelling the returning liquor straight back out into the herms coil and leaving the bulk to cool as a result???

as a kettle rims brewer with a g/f my mash liquor is exposed to higher than 80C temps at the heatplate while maintaining a lower mash temp in the bulk.
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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by johnmac » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:38 pm

Yes, it's the same tun and I am heating the water enough for the mash to settle at close to 66 after the grain is added. I'm tending to go for quite a thin mash, so I'd hope that channeling wouldn't be an issue, but how could I know? I'm batch sparging and I stir when I refill the tun.

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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by Eric » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:23 pm

johnmac wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:04 pm
After about 200 brews using a simple insulated mash tun, I've switch to HERMS for the last half a dozen brews. The main change I can see is a massive loss of efficiency, requiring about 30% more malt. My heat exchanger is a cheap 1.7 litre kettle with a copper coil for the beer to circulate through and pick up heat.

The water temperature in the kettle is getting up to 80c, which must be enough to deactivate the enzymes, so I'm wondering if this is the cause of my lost efficiency and how do others get on with HERMS/RIMS and the possibility of over heating the wort?
Yes, your new system is likely prematurely denaturing the enzymes. However that is unlikely to be the cause for low efficiency.

The optimal operating temperature for alpha amylase is slightly higher than that of a typical single infusion mash meaning that conversion to sugars are likely to complete more quickly, but the resulting mix of fermentables and non-fermentables may not be as desired to result in a less fermentable wort.

I have RIMS, but avoid recycling at the initial stages accepting that some enzymes will be lost in the process. I can achieve over 90% efficiency but sparging takes about 2 hours.
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johnmac
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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by johnmac » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:28 am

"I have RIMS, but avoid recycling at the initial stages"

That's what I'm thinking now - do a conventional infusion mash for about 30-40 min, then start recycling after most of the conversion has taken place?

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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by wanus » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:58 pm

What went wrong with your simple insulated mash tun? Somthing i suspect after 200 brews but iff not why have you fixed somthing that was`nt broken?
I`m not advanced to this stage of brewing so its why i ask the question?
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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by johnmac » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:38 pm

Wanus, that's a very good question! I went to HERMS because I wanted to recycle and get crystal clear wort, to stop winter heat loss, because everyone else seems to do it and I thought I might be missing out and also because I like bodging new kit.

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Re: Am I killing my enzymes?

Post by guypettigrew » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:04 pm

johnmac wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:38 pm
Wanus, that's a very good question! I went to HERMS because I wanted to recycle and get crystal clear wort, to stop winter heat loss, because everyone else seems to do it and I thought I might be missing out and also because I like bodging new kit.

Go on, admit it, this was the real reason, wasn't it?!

Guy

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