House Session Pale Ale v1 - v4

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rui
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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by rui » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:07 pm

so, how were they??any foto from the finished beer?
Planning: Raspberry Witbier, , Bitter, Porter
FV1: BIAB#54 CHRISTMAS Porter
FV2:
FV3:
keg1: BIAB#49 Kölsh
keg2: Robust Porter
Keg3: Saison
Keg4: Best Bitter
bottled and conditioning: Extra-stout, Blonde ale, APA and Smoked Porter

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donchiquon
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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:07 am

rui wrote:so, how were they??any foto from the finished beer?
Thanks for asking - if meant to follow up with how the quest for a 3-4% beer that tasted like a 6% one worked out.

Version 1. Tasmanian Drop

Good malt bill courtesy of @Seymour. The hops let this beer down - really couldn't taste much of them at all. The Summer was very subtle and there wasn't enough Galaxy to make up for it. I eventually keg-hopped it with Mosaic which did it's usually Swiss-army knife job of delivering all the usual flavours!

For various reasons the beer also finished up at 1006 and 5% which was much higher than I wanted.

Image

Version 2: Granny Ring (after the smallest bike cog, not the bimonthly Octogenarian swingers publication).

The malt body on this one (from a Mike McDole recipe) was a bit watery for what I was aiming for. There were some good flavours but not enough.

The hop flavour was fine and I ended up with a 3.8% beer which was close to what I was trying for. The higher mash temp still didn't work properly and it finished at around 1010. I would definitely rebrew this but with a Uk Vienna addition to bulk up the malt body.

Image

Version 3: Vienna Half IPA

The malt bill on this was probably the best (a Tonsmeire recipe) as the Vienna really made it taste like a bigger beer. For some reason however the finished beer was cloudy (and has still not cleared!), too bitter, and has a slightly grassy taste to it that I haven't got with hops before, even with large late/dry additions.

I had two kegs of this and even tried re-crashing it and fining a second time with gelatin together with a week at 1 degree but it remained cloudy. I wonder therefore if this was hop haze (I added the equivalent of 125g for 23L) although I haven't had this before with big highly hopped IPAs.

The thin high mash finally did the trick and my FG was 1014. This is the beer I would most like to rebrew to try and get the hopping right. I'll post up a cloudy pic next time I tap a pint. At the moment I've just decided to leave the keg in the kegerator and see if time does the job!

Autumn has now arrived in the Alps and I've found myself with 4 out of 5 taps of Session beer so I've had to hurriedly brew up a strong brown ale and a Bell's Two-hearted IPA (thanks to @Matt in Birdham) in order to balance things out a bit!
Ian

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donchiquon
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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:12 am

rui wrote:so, how were they??any foto from the finished beer?
Thanks for asking - if meant to follow up with how the quest for a 3-4% beer that tasted like a 6% one worked out.

Version 1. Tasmanian Drop

Good malt bill courtesy of @Seymour. The hops let this beer down - really couldn't taste much of them at all. The Summer was very subtle and there wasn't enough Galaxy to make up for it. I eventually keg-hopped it with Mosaic which did it's usually Swiss-army knife job of delivering all the usual flavours!

For various reasons the beer also finished up at 1006 and 5% which was much higher than I wanted.

Image

Version 2: Granny Ring (after the smallest bike cog, not the bimonthly Octogenarian swingers publication).

The malt body on this one (from a Mike McDole recipe) was a bit watery for what I was aiming for. There were some good flavours but not enough.

The hop flavour was fine and I ended up with a 3.8% beer which was close to what I was trying for. The higher mash temp still didn't work properly and it finished at around 1010. I would definitely rebrew this but with a Uk Vienna addition to bulk up the malt body.

Image

Version 3: Vienna Half IPA

The malt bill on this was probably the best (a Tonsmeire recipe) as the Vienna really made it taste like a bigger beer. For some reason however the finished beer was cloudy (and has still not cleared!), too bitter, and has a slightly grassy taste to it that I haven't got with hops before, even with large late/dry additions.

I had two kegs of this and even tried re-crashing it and fining a second time with gelatin together with a week at 1 degree but it remained cloudy. I wonder therefore if this was hop haze (I added the equivalent of 125g for 23L) although I haven't had this before with big highly hopped IPAs.

The thin high mash finally did the trick and my FG was 1014. This is the beer I would most like to rebrew to try and get the hopping right. I'll post up a cloudy pic next time I tap a pint. At the moment I've just decided to leave the keg in the kegerator and see if time does the job!

Autumn has now arrived in the Alps and I've found myself with 4 out of 5 taps of Session beer so I've had to hurriedly brew up a strong brown ale and a Bell's Two-hearted IPA (thanks to @Matt in Birdham) in order to balance things out a bit!
Ian

rui
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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by rui » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:18 pm

Thanks for the reply!! i did a smash vienna and cascade as my summer beer, ended lovely!!
https://imgur.com/a/xtleY

cheers
Planning: Raspberry Witbier, , Bitter, Porter
FV1: BIAB#54 CHRISTMAS Porter
FV2:
FV3:
keg1: BIAB#49 Kölsh
keg2: Robust Porter
Keg3: Saison
Keg4: Best Bitter
bottled and conditioning: Extra-stout, Blonde ale, APA and Smoked Porter

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donchiquon
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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:07 pm

With all the lovely weather that we've been having I thought it was probably about time to start swapping the heavier winter tap beers for something a bit lighter. I've got a Graham Wheeler Yorkshire ale conditioning, and a rebrew of that planned, so just need something hoppy. My aim is still to end up with a complex malty, hoppy, medium-full bodied pale ale which drinks like a 6% one but with about half the alcohol.

Looking back over the notes and tastings of the three pale ales I brewed last summer I decided that version 2 held the most promise, not version 3 which I thought at the time. Version 3 never cleared and remained a bit astringent, possibly due to the large amounts of Galaxy used. Version 2 became less watery over time and as the hops mellowed the background malt flavours (57% lager malt, 19% MO, 14% Caramalt, 5% Pale crystal, 5% carapils) were definitely the ones I wanted, just not strong enough.

I reworked the recipe, replacing the lager and MO with 70% Crisp pale ale, adjusted the crystal to try and add a bit more complexity and some toffee flavour (5% caramalt, 5% pale, 5% medium) and finally added some Vienna to boost the maltiness (I had the equivalent of 8% Weyerman leftover so added this together with 7% UK, with the aim of ending up with an equivalent of roughly 10% UK Vienna).

I had a 500g bag of Cascade loitering with intent in the hop box, so decided on a single hop version with Magnum to bitter and the rest as a whirlpool addition. I cocked up and entered this into beersmith as a 70g 60 minute whirlpool when I only wanted 30 mins, so had to correct on the fly and increase the hop addition to 90g in order to compensate. I plumped for 6g/l dry hop as I'm currently trying to dial-in my aroma and dry hop additions to get the flavour and aroma levels I like with a bit more accuracy - see chart. Let's just say that it is a work in progress :-k
Screenshot 2018-03-05 12.09.26.png
I went for a 45min 71 degree thin mash (4L/kg) with mash out as I have found this is the only way to stop WLP002 eating everything in it's path, my experience with it does not seem to match the attenuation on the Whitelabs spec. I might even up this to 72 degrees for a future version. Again, I'm trying to be a bit more organised about hitting FG and have been plotting my last few brews with 002. I switched to a batch sparge to try and avoid any astringency.
Screenshot 2018-03-05 11.45.25.png
Water-wise I went for GW's sweet pale ale profile for a more rounded finish on the beer. The brewday went smoothly despite the whirlpool calc mistake. My pH ended up higher than I wanted at 5.7 which I have realised is probably down to a new and better voltcraft meter. I'll adjust next time with more calcium chloride and possibly more CRS. OG was 1043 vs 1044, and I repitched 250ml of 002 slurry.

It was off and running by the following day, a slower than I'd expected with the slurry which was only a few days old. Looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.
Screenshot 2018-03-05 11.28.56.png
Ian

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by orlando » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:45 pm

donchiquon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:07 pm
My pH ended up higher than I wanted at 5.7 which I have realised is probably down to a new and better voltcraft meter.
If this happened with your Vienna beer then it could explain why the beer didn't clear, particulalry if you sparged with water high in alkalinity. It would drag out more polyphenols and proteins from the grain. Once proteins bind to tannins they can form a colloidal haze that is hard to break. A very vigorous boil and fast cold break will always help but get the pH right and the rest is a lot easier.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Kernel Bogey (Reprise)
Conditioning: St. Petersburg (RIS) White On Blonde
Drinking: Mild In The Country, Summer Son, Duke Of Jarl
Up Next: Peaches (Peach IPA)
Planning: Summer drinking beer.

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donchiquon
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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:00 pm

orlando wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:45 pm
donchiquon wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:07 pm
My pH ended up higher than I wanted at 5.7 which I have realised is probably down to a new and better voltcraft meter.
If this happened with your Vienna beer then it could explain why the beer didn't clear, particulalry if you sparged with water high in alkalinity. It would drag out more polyphenols and proteins from the grain. Once proteins bind to tannins they can form a colloidal haze that is hard to break. A very vigorous boil and fast cold break will always help but get the pH right and the rest is a lot easier.
I really hope so, it would be a nice explanation and hopefully one that I can address. Looking through 4 beers I have had which failed to clear in the past couple of years...

- 2 cleared beautifully in the keg with gelatin, but didn't clear in the bottles (even when chilled)
- 2 stayed cloudy in keg and bottle. These two had heavy Galaxy dry hop of up to 9.2g/l
- All 4 had a 30 minute whirlpool after chilling to 80 degrees, and then took about 15 more minutes after whirlpool to drop to 18 degrees.
- All 4 would have been subject to 5.7+ pH, maybe nearly 6 in some cases
- 3 were fly sparged, and 1 was batch sparged (one of the Galaxy's, which interestingly is now starting to clear...)
Ian

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1-v4

Post by donchiquon » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:49 am

Just checked the FG before crashing - 1.007 ](*,) That's on a 71 degree thin mash!!!

Tastes good, nice and clear, no off-flavours that might suggest that something else has been eating the sugars.

I'm wondering if the 250ml slurry repitch was an big overpitch (Edit 1: it was only a couple of days old so should have been nice and healthy). I kept the fermentation at about 17.5 degrees, and it never got out of control, but an overpitch is the only culprit I can think of.

Edit 2: Having done a bit of goggling I can't seem to find too much to indicate that overpitching would cause over attenuation. Not sure where to look next for the potential cause!

Edit 3: The only part of the process that I'm now thinking might be at fault is the mash out....I usually do this as a matter of course, but this time I was in a hurry. If I missed it out and didn't get the first runnings on the heat quick enough then I might well have extended my mash time without realising it AND at lower conversion temperatures. #-o
Ian

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