Total Disaster

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monkeyboy
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Total Disaster

Post by monkeyboy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:34 pm

Well today's brewday turned out to be a total disaster. Just about everything that could go wrong, did.

First, the mash: I gave up on my coolbox and bought a shiny new mashtun from ssbrewtech. I'd already done some temp stability testing and it was very good at holding the temp, even outside on a cold day, so I was optimistic. For the recipe I had (an attempt at Alesmith IPA clone - a superb San Diego IPA) beersmith said to mash in with 17L at 74C. So that's what I did. First disaster - I'm nowhere near 66.7, the desired mash temp. So I start dumping in litres of boiling water - so much so that by the time the temp stabilised to about 67 the mash tun was nearly full. With hindsight I now realise that the strike temp was expecting a pre-warmed mash tun. I just (stupidly) assumed that was taken into account. Muppet.

So now I've a 10 gallon mash tun full to the brim with the wettest mash you've ever seen. It's like a thin soup. Well there's no point in sparging it because I'll end up with more wort than I can ever boil. So instead I just decided to drain what I could out of it and get on with it in the hope that the brewing gods will shine on me.

How wrong I was.

After the allotted hour I start draining the mash tun. The false bottom isn't holding anything back - probably because the mash is so fecking soupy. Vorlauf, Vorlauf! It's still full of bits. Nothing I try really makes any difference. Nothing to do but move on, and cross fingers.

Amazingly the boil goes okay, and to my eternal surprise when I drain into my FV it actually kinda looks okay. There's a bit of break material in the FV - maybe a bit more than normal but mostly it looks okay. There's a ton of break sludge left behind. Hmm. Maybe this will be okay after all.

And then I take the gravity reading and I'm way, way off. I was expecting about 21L at 1.069. I've got 22L at 1.054. Damn. Damn. Damn.

Chuck the yeast in, oxygenate. If this turns out to be drinkable I'll be amazed.

Recipe (for what it's wortrh)
5 Kg Pale
250g Munich
250g Carapils
250g Rye Malt
500g Wheat Malt
200g Torrified Wheat

20g Simcoe and 20g Apollo - first wort hops
5g Cascade 30 mins
5g Simcoe 15 mins
10g Cascade 5 mins
30g Cascade and 10g Simcoe 1 min
Flame out, steep for 30 mins, chill.

Maybe the dry hopping can rescue it.

Anyone else out there had problems with the false bottom in the ssbrewtech mash tuns? Only solution I can think of is to either mash in a muslin bag inside the tun, or fit some kind of extra filter underneath the false bottom that will hold back the bits. Bit worried that this would just cause a stuck mash, so the mash in a bag approach might be the best bet.

Photos when I can face looking at them!
Fermenting: AG#22 San Diego IPA
Drinking: Probably.

Secla
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by Secla » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:00 pm

Who crushed the grain ? Any chance it's to fine a crush ?

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Kev888
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by Kev888 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:23 pm

Unless they have some value you can enter for the mash tun, strike temperature calculators usually account for only the combination of liquor plus grain and their relative volumes and temperatures - i.e. the temperature of the strike liquor after it has warmed the mash tun. This may not matter with plastic tuns, but stainless ones suck out more heat. Pre-heating helps reduce the difference, or else you can work out the heat capacity of the mash tun (by doing tests with water) and factor it into your strike liquor calculations.

It could be that the extra particles in the mash were partly due to the extra stirring you did whilst raising temperature, freeing more than usual from the grain. Combined with the thin mash helping to wash them out of the grain bed afterwards. Grain particles in the kettle are not ideal, but I've sometimes had this kind of thing happen and the results don't wreck the beer.

As you guessed, the lack of sparging (and possibly the mash temperature) has resulted in lower mash efficiency. IMO its usually worth testing the gravity of the wort before the boil to predict how close it will be to the intention post-boil; if you don't want to sparge more, boil longer or dilute to correct it you could still adjust the hopping quantities or schedule to at least better balance these with the new OG. In this case (because you were aiming for a high OG) the gravity is still respectable and the hops aren't especially bitter, so i'd expect it to be worth persevering with - it won't be the beer you intended, but you may still like it.

I can't help with the SS mash tun performance, hopefully someone else has one.
Kev

monkeyboy
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by monkeyboy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:46 pm

Thanks guys. The grain was from malt miller and looked up to their usual standard. I don't think I can blame the ingredients ;)

The extra stirring could have contributed to the particles. And I'll definitely pre-heat the temp next time to see if that gets me closer to expected temps. Thinking about it some more it's also possible that the strike water wasn't as hot as I thought - I need to make sure I stir it before taking a temperature reading in case I'm just getting a hot/cold spot.

I had a little taster from the sample jar and it still tasted fine. So perhaps all is not lost. The irony is that if I really like it I'll never be able to recreate it ;)
Fermenting: AG#22 San Diego IPA
Drinking: Probably.

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orlando
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by orlando » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:14 pm

You need to set up your mash tun in BeerSmith. It has a question about whether it is SS or plastic so that takes care of Kev's first point. You may also recall that BS asks for the temperature of your grain AND the mash tun, as long as you put those measurements in and tick the box that says adjust for temperature then whatever it says you should heat your strike water to, should get you very close. You can adjust slightly as you get used to the tun's performance. Kev mentioned the point about a thin mash giving a slightly less efficient performance. A thin mash doesn't offer as much protection from thermal shock so can denature the enzymes early. It's this that is possibly the deeper explanation
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

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alexlark
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by alexlark » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:01 pm

Nevertheless, sounds like a tasty brew! Good luck, bet it will turn out fine.

monkeyboy
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by monkeyboy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:39 pm

Orlando -- is that the PC version of Brewsmith? I'm using the phone version, and thought I'd set it up properly. I used some info off the SSBrewtech website to set up the mash profile.

Arrghh. Just found it - 'Adjust temp for equipment'. Checked that and it went to a strike temp of 79.2 - an extra 5.4 degrees. Guess what - that's more or less how short it was when I first mashed in.

Now I just need to brew again :)

Thanks for the info and help.
Fermenting: AG#22 San Diego IPA
Drinking: Probably.

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orlando
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by orlando » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:06 am

monkeyboy wrote:Orlando -- is that the PC version of Brewsmith? I'm using the phone version, and thought I'd set it up properly. I used some info off the SSBrewtech website to set up the mash profile.

Arrghh. Just found it - 'Adjust temp for equipment'. Checked that and it went to a strike temp of 79.2 - an extra 5.4 degrees. Guess what - that's more or less how short it was when I first mashed in.

Now I just need to brew again :)

Thanks for the info and help.
Looks like your sorted. I was referring to the PC version but I also have it on my phone so will check whether you can set up equipment on that too. The key here is setting up your equipment, specifically whether the MT is plastic or metal. As you have observed you can preheat the MT but my view is that is a little hit or miss as you can't be sure the MT has absorbed all the heat, probably better to take the air temperature AND grain temperature, plumb that in and make sure the adjust temp for equipment box is checked, then heat the water to the calculated temp. I'm fortunate in that I use my RIMS to recirculate mash water up to strike temp but I still have to manipulate the numbers until the strike temp and mash tun temp are roughly similar. If I get it right I hit the mash temp fairly closely. The RIMS does the rest to ensure it maintains the mash temp I want.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning:
Drinking: Southwold Again,

Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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alexlark
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by alexlark » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:43 am

For what it's worth I've found Beersmith extremely accurate once dialled in to your equipment. Unbelievably good software for the price.

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Mr Squiffy
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by Mr Squiffy » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:33 pm

monkeyboy wrote:Arrghh. Just found it - 'Adjust temp for equipment'. Checked that and it went to a strike temp of 79.2 - an extra 5.4 degrees. Guess what - that's more or less how short it was when I first mashed in.
A strike temp of 79°C seems a bit high from my experience.
I've had a 10 gallon SSBrewtech mash tun for a while now, I find the tun knocks the water temp down about 3 or 4°C to pre-warm so I usually dump 76-80°C water in the tun and let it get down to about 71-75°C strike temp (depending on target mash temp). I typically find with a 5 or 6kg grain bill the mash temp settles at 6or7°C below strike temp.
On the subject of vorlauf, yes it takes a while to run nearly clear, it never really runs perfectly clear, maybe the holes in the false bottom are a bit too big? I tend to need to vorlauf about 5 or 6 liters before I start collecting the wort.
I'm sure your beer won't have suffered too much.

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orlando
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by orlando » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:01 pm

Mr Squiffy wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:Arrghh. Just found it - 'Adjust temp for equipment'. Checked that and it went to a strike temp of 79.2 - an extra 5.4 degrees. Guess what - that's more or less how short it was when I first mashed in.
A strike temp of 79°C seems a bit high from my experience.
I've had a 10 gallon SSBrewtech mash tun for a while now, I find the tun knocks the water temp down about 3 or 4°C to pre-warm so I usually dump 76-80°C water in the tun and let it get down to about 71-75°C strike temp (depending on target mash temp). I typically find with a 5 or 6kg grain bill the mash temp settles at 6or7°C below strike temp.
On the subject of vorlauf, yes it takes a while to run nearly clear, it never really runs perfectly clear, maybe the holes in the false bottom are a bit too big? I tend to need to vorlauf about 5 or 6 liters before I start collecting the wort.
I'm sure your beer won't have suffered too much.
It also depends on the temperature of the grains, which will vary for all sorts of reasons depending on whether we are in summer or winter, in the house or in a shed.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning:
Drinking: Southwold Again,

Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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Monkeybrew
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by Monkeybrew » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:26 am

Hi monkeyboy,

I have been using the 10 gallon SS Brewtech Mash Tun for my last 5 brews, and get around the problem in a slightly less technical way.

I have got beersmith, but weirdly still seem to like using BrewMate at the moment, so I just add a couple more litres of water to my HLT and then when it's up to temperature, just drop the extra hot liquor into my MT, pop the lid on and then leave for 10mins or so before draining off.

This helps to get me somewhere near my strike temp when I then add the Mash liquor, but as I am still refining things, I usually end up a couple of degress higher than I want, so just stir the hot liquor for a few minutes until it levels out to my required strike temperature, as I said slightly less technical!

I soon came to the conclusion that the holes in the false bottom are maybe too big, but as this is my first off the shelf MT, I can't be sure. After my second brew with it, I decided to cut a relevant sized square of Voile material to use as a fine filter between the false bottom and the centre drain hole in the bottom of the tun. This has worked well to stop larger pieces of grain finding their way out of the tap, but I can't help thinking that I shouldn't have to be intervening with an expensive bit of kit. Maybe it's just my technique?

Ironically I haven't been able to quite match the mash efficiency levels of my homemade cool box MT. I also seem to get better results when batch sparging with the SS Brewtech, which is frustrating as I love the fly sparge kit that comes with it! Maybe my fly sparging techniques are just crap, so I will reserve judgement until I try again at fly sparging.

On the plus side though, it's a joy to clean compared to my cool box version, and of course it looks the part :mrgreen:

Image

I suppose it proves that 'he who has the most toy's, doesn't always win' :wink:

Anyway as others have said, I'm sure your brew will be fine, even though it might not be quite what you set out to brew.

Cheers from one monkey to another!

MB
FV:


Conditioning:
AG#41 - Vienna Lager - 5.6%
AG#42 - Heritage Double Ale - 10.5%

On Tap:
AG#44 - Harvest ESB - 5.4%
AG#45 - Amarillo Gold APA - 5.2%

monkeyboy
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Re: Total Disaster

Post by monkeyboy » Mon May 01, 2017 7:58 pm

Sorry for late reply - unexpectedly away from home for a few days. When I got back the yeast was nearly crawling out of the fermenter. Just taken a sample and it's at 1032 with plenty of yeasty krausen on top, and activity in the airlock. To my considerable surprise, it tastes really good. My pessimism may turn out to be unfounded!

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I think I'll see how accurate beersmith is now that I've got the right checkbox set and then try to fine tune it using observed results. If the problem persists with the clarity of the wort I may go down a similar route to monkeybrew. Or stick a seive over the kettle I drain it into. Something low-tech like that.
Fermenting: AG#22 San Diego IPA
Drinking: Probably.

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