House Session Pale Ale v1 - v4

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donchiquon
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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1 & v2

Post by donchiquon » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:48 pm

UpTheToon wrote:How do you find the tilt? It's a sexy bit of kit :)

Easy to clean? Battery lasts a while? Connectivity solid?
Cleaning is fine - just do the same as my other bits and then leave it in Starsan until I pitch. Battery seems fine, although I have only done 5 brews with it. I dont have it hooked up to a bluetooth device (phone etc) permanently but have no problems connecting whenever I need to check.

It's far from essential but it's been good to see how quickly the gravity has been dropping various brews. I've used it to help time dry-hopping, and work out if I need to rouse the yeast or increase the temp. Checking it several times a day is just brew-porn :wink:

The only issue I've had are some rather odd readings whilst dry hopping, and I've yet to work out if this consistently pushes the gravity reading several points lower. At this stage I find the readings less useful anyhow and can still use it to check to see if gravity has stabilised.
Ian

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1 & v2

Post by donchiquon » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:05 pm

I've been rousing the hops every 24 hours for the past 3 days to try and improve my dry hopping...
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House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:25 am

Day 7 and v2 has been stable for a couple of days, although the Tilt was erring between 1008 and 1010 (I need to get it rigged up to a device and logging permanently to get a better accuracy on the numbers).

Hydrometer reading was 1011, so this has definitely worked out better than v1 which attenuated to 1006. The hydrometer taster definitely had more body. I'll crash for a couple of days and then keg.

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:43 am

V2 kegged under pressure with gelatin and sat at 30psi for 24 hours. Looking forward to this one.
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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by Sadfield » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:25 pm

Nice setup you've got there donchiquon.

I'm interested in the Tilt and I am curious as to what effect CO2 in solution would have on the readings. I am starting to transfer to a Cornie as secondary, quite early in fermentation, and using the remaining CO2 production to carbonate my beer, using a pressure release valve on the gas outlet. This allows me to dryhop under pressure and package to any format with minimal oxygen pickup. A Tilt would be great for picking the time of transfer (before 50% attenuation), but if I transferred the Tilt to the keg I'm wondering how CO2 in solution would skew the readings. Do you have any thoughts on this? I'm thinking it would only be affected if the beer degassed, ie if the head pressure was removed, like when opening a bottle.

I may have access to the parts for an iSpindle, a make at home version of the Tilt.

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by f00b4r » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:27 pm

donchiquon wrote:V2 kegged under pressure with gelatin and sat at 30psi for 24 hours. Looking forward to this one.
Image
Nice!
Any chance of some ore details about your setup as I have been thinking about moving to a closed loop transfer?
What is the ID/OD of the silicone hose and is that just attached to the barb on the beer out disconnect?
Are you injecting the gelatine thorugh the PRV?
What is attached to the gas out, is it e.g. just a pipe into water or something else?
It seems there are quite a few ways to set this up and I have not quite decided yet which way I want to go.
Do you think it has improved your beers?

Oh and I hope your manifold setup is still working great :-)

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:15 am

Sadfield wrote:Nice setup you've got there donchiquon.

I'm interested in the Tilt and I am curious as to what effect CO2 in solution would have on the readings. I am starting to transfer to a Cornie as secondary, quite early in fermentation, and using the remaining CO2 production to carbonate my beer, using a pressure release valve on the gas outlet. This allows me to dryhop under pressure and package to any format with minimal oxygen pickup. A Tilt would be great for picking the time of transfer (before 50% attenuation), but if I transferred the Tilt to the keg I'm wondering how CO2 in solution would skew the readings. Do you have any thoughts on this? I'm thinking it would only be affected if the beer degassed, ie if the head pressure was removed, like when opening a bottle.

I may have access to the parts for an iSpindle, a make at home version of the Tilt.
Hmmm...that's an interesting one. I agree that the Tilt will be v useful for picking the right level of attenuation prior to transfer but I would guess that CO2 bubbles clinging to it after carbonation would skew the readings.

Would you be planning to then push the beer into a serving keg? Other wise you'd be tying up the Tilt for a long time, or risking O2 ingress to fish it out.

When my next brew is done, I could stick the Tilt in carbonated water and see how it affects the reading....
Ian

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:34 am

f00b4r wrote:
donchiquon wrote:V2 kegged under pressure with gelatin and sat at 30psi for 24 hours. Looking forward to this one.
Nice!
Any chance of some ore details about your setup as I have been thinking about moving to a closed loop transfer?
What is the ID/OD of the silicone hose and is that just attached to the barb on the beer out disconnect?
Are you injecting the gelatine thorugh the PRV?
What is attached to the gas out, is it e.g. just a pipe into water or something else?
It seems there are quite a few ways to set this up and I have not quite decided yet which way I want to go.
Do you think it has improved your beers?

Oh and I hope your manifold setup is still working great :-)
Hi f00b4r

Yes the manifold is working brilliantly - such an improvement over the old crows feet. I can diagnose and isolate a leaky key quickly, and stop it bleeding everything else dry. I can also use it to isolate a single keg and check if it is over-carbed. Thanks for your help there.

I've been pressure filling for the past several brews and aside from the first transfer which got stuck (still haven't identified why!) the rest have been quick and easy, only taking 10 mins more than the old method. Once the keg is done the pressure also makes bottling with wand much faster and has the additional benefit of making the beer foam up in the bottle which I guess helps squeeze out the O2.

After a couple of non-gelatined brews I've also returned to adding it and use @Matt in Birdham's technique of injecting through the PRV. I do this whilst the keg is filling and the pressure in the keg is still positive so there is a constant escape of CO2 (and no O2 seems to get in).

I connect the beer in line loosely to the conical first, and then connect it to the pressured CO2 filled keg. This blows CO2 down the line to purge it. Once the pressure has escaped I tighten the barb to seal the conical connection. Then I attach a short piece of tube and grey disco to the gas out. The keg is on a chunk of wood which tilts it towards the gas out. This means that when the keg is nearly full beer comes out of the gas out and you can stop the transfer before the keg is overfilled. Once the keg is righted and level again, the beer sits just below the gas in pipe.

I'll check the hose and get back to you. You can find more info on the process (and various pics of mine and others transfers) here on Matt's post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77773

I've also run line from the manifold to my fermentation fridge to make pressurising the corny easier. I use it for rousing the yeast and hops occasionally.

Overall I think it would take longer and maybe a side-by-side comparison to see if it has improved the beer. It's very little extra effort and time, and has made the process easier in some ways (bottling). Given the ease I'm going to carry on doing it for the time being.
Ian

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:23 pm

Yesterday I brewed my third attempt at a session ale. Each version has had a different grain bill (wheat heavy, crystal heavy etc) and this one had a large amount of UK Vienna malt.

The original recipe called for 70% German Vienna, and UK is apparently roughly twice as strong, so I dropped the % to 30. I then added 5% pale crystal, 5% flaked oats, and the rest uk pale ale.

From hours of time misspent trawling t'internet I've now gathered a bunch of things that will help build body in a session beer. I'm trying nearly all of them in this final version:

- Use plenty of dextrinous grains in the malt bill: Carapils, crystals etc
- Mash at 70-72 deg
- Use a thin mash (up to 4L/kg)
- No sparge or batch sparge
- 45 minute mash
- Mash out (to ensure enzyme activity has stopped)
- Chloride based water treatment to round out flavours
- Use a low attenuating yeast
- restrained carbonation

Let me know if there are any more I should be adding to the list!

I added all the hops at the end of the boil, a little at 5 mins, then the majority at whirlpool. 50:50 Galaxy and Vic Secret for what I hope will be a really fruity beer.

Brewday was reasonably cock-up free, although just to maintain previous form I accidentally left the chiller on and the whirlpool dropped to 50 degrees - I added 10 mins to compensate. The OG was spot on 1041 when I pumped into the fermenter and aerated.

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by Sadfield » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:23 pm

donchiquon wrote:Hmmm...that's an interesting one. I agree that the Tilt will be v useful for picking the right level of attenuation prior to transfer but I would guess that CO2 bubbles clinging to it after carbonation would skew the readings.

Would you be planning to then push the beer into a serving keg? Other wise you'd be tying up the Tilt for a long time, or risking O2 ingress to fish it out.

When my next brew is done, I could stick the Tilt in carbonated water and see how it affects the reading....
Hi

I currently bottle using a blichmann beer gun, as I brew small and often and prefer a range of beers to choose from. So the Tilt would only be in the keg for fermentation.

Giving it further thought I don't think co2 will be an issue as the beer is under pressure, so won't form bubbles. And in normal conditions beer retains some co2 at atmospheric pressure.

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:02 pm

Sadfield wrote:Giving it further thought I don't think co2 will be an issue as the beer is under pressure, so won't form bubbles. And in normal conditions beer retains some co2 at atmospheric pressure.
Makes sense, I hadn't thought of that! I'd be interested to hear how to get on if you decide to try it.
Ian

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by f00b4r » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:36 am

donchiquon wrote:
f00b4r wrote:
donchiquon wrote:V2 kegged under pressure with gelatin and sat at 30psi for 24 hours. Looking forward to this one.
Nice!
Any chance of some ore details about your setup as I have been thinking about moving to a closed loop transfer?
What is the ID/OD of the silicone hose and is that just attached to the barb on the beer out disconnect?
Are you injecting the gelatine thorugh the PRV?
What is attached to the gas out, is it e.g. just a pipe into water or something else?
It seems there are quite a few ways to set this up and I have not quite decided yet which way I want to go.
Do you think it has improved your beers?

Oh and I hope your manifold setup is still working great :-)
Hi f00b4r

Yes the manifold is working brilliantly - such an improvement over the old crows feet. I can diagnose and isolate a leaky key quickly, and stop it bleeding everything else dry. I can also use it to isolate a single keg and check if it is over-carbed. Thanks for your help there.

I've been pressure filling for the past several brews and aside from the first transfer which got stuck (still haven't identified why!) the rest have been quick and easy, only taking 10 mins more than the old method. Once the keg is done the pressure also makes bottling with wand much faster and has the additional benefit of making the beer foam up in the bottle which I guess helps squeeze out the O2.

After a couple of non-gelatined brews I've also returned to adding it and use @Matt in Birdham's technique of injecting through the PRV. I do this whilst the keg is filling and the pressure in the keg is still positive so there is a constant escape of CO2 (and no O2 seems to get in).

I connect the beer in line loosely to the conical first, and then connect it to the pressured CO2 filled keg. This blows CO2 down the line to purge it. Once the pressure has escaped I tighten the barb to seal the conical connection. Then I attach a short piece of tube and grey disco to the gas out. The keg is on a chunk of wood which tilts it towards the gas out. This means that when the keg is nearly full beer comes out of the gas out and you can stop the transfer before the keg is overfilled. Once the keg is righted and level again, the beer sits just below the gas in pipe.

I'll check the hose and get back to you. You can find more info on the process (and various pics of mine and others transfers) here on Matt's post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=77773

I've also run line from the manifold to my fermentation fridge to make pressurising the corny easier. I use it for rousing the yeast and hops occasionally.

Overall I think it would take longer and maybe a side-by-side comparison to see if it has improved the beer. It's very little extra effort and time, and has made the process easier in some ways (bottling). Given the ease I'm going to carry on doing it for the time being.
Apologies for the late reply on this and thanks for the detailed info and some great ideas like tilting the keg towards the gas out, although I still have a couple of questions if you do not mind?
You mention it making bottling with a wand easier, are you using a bottling wand to bottle from the keg before/after it has been carbonated or a beer gun?
The line into your fermenting fridge, are you just using it for "flushing" with some CO2 when rousing yeast or adding hops?

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:03 am

f00b4r wrote:Apologies for the late reply on this and thanks for the detailed info and some great ideas like tilting the keg towards the gas out, although I still have a couple of questions if you do not mind?
You mention it making bottling with a wand easier, are you using a bottling wand to bottle from the keg before/after it has been carbonated or a beer gun?
The line into your fermenting fridge, are you just using it for "flushing" with some CO2 when rousing yeast or adding hops?
Hi f00b4r!

I tend to fill the keg first, and then attach the bottling wand and fill up as many bottles as I have left in the FV. I do this after cold-crashing and pre-carbonation. The 2psi pressure fills the bottles super-quick and produces a nice bit of foam as the CO2 is driven off which I hope will help expel some of the o2 from the bottle air-gap (even though I guess this shouldn't be an issue when bottle conditioning).

I use a 2 psi line into the fridge to rouse the yeast (on some brews), then rouse the hops (I didn't like the idea of them sinking into the dump tube at the bottom of the FV and not being resuspended every day), then I use it to pressure the FV whilst cold crashing (topping up the pressure every few hours), and finally to keg and bottle with.

I've also run a separate 30 psi line in to burst carbonate for 24 hours whilst the beer is sitting in the keg with a dose of gelatin. I unhook this after 24 hours, leave the keg at about 1 degree C for another couple of days and then put it in the kegerator.

Hope this helps!
Ian

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by WalesAles » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:23 pm

donch,
Nice to see a `WalesAles` sticker on your tall fridge! :D

WA

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Re: House Session Pale Ale v1, v2, & v3

Post by donchiquon » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:30 am

WalesAles wrote:donch,
Nice to see a `WalesAles` sticker on your tall fridge! :D
WA
It always attracts a few questions. I tell folk that it is a competition-winning nano brewery that I'm sure they will soon see on the taps in their local. I'm waiting for someone to greet me with the time honoured reply...."bloody lovely mun".
Ian

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