When to add the LME
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alethos738
When to add the LME
Is there any reason why I cannot add the LME after the boil. I'm asking because with my first ever extract brew this week I heated the liquor to 70C, ran off some water into a cool box for my steeping grains and added the LME to the boiler and stirred. This cooled the liquor sufficiently for the heater to cut in and after about 20 secs grey smokey bubbles appeared on the surface. The LME that I couldn't get to under the hop filter was burning. The outcome was that I didn't achieve the planned OG and a difficult clean up job afterwards, but with no apparent adverse effect on flavour pre-fermetation. So, the question is, is it necessary to boil the malt and hops together as is common in most brews.
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Jocky
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Re: When to add the LME
You should boil LME, for at least 15 minutes. It helps remove some volatile substances which can cause off flavours in beer, not to mention infection. However, many kit brewers don't boil and rarely have serious issues. So you can get away without boiling, but its not stacking the deck in favour of getting the best beer you can.
Pour the LME in slowly while stirring so that it mixes eater than drops to the bottom of the boiler.
Pour the LME in slowly while stirring so that it mixes eater than drops to the bottom of the boiler.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.
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DaveyT
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Re: When to add the LME
Turn the heater off too.
I use dried extract which doesn't seem to drop too quickly.
I use dried extract which doesn't seem to drop too quickly.
Evolution didn't end with us growing thumbs.
Bill Hicks
Bill Hicks
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alethos738
Re: When to add the LME
Thanks for your quick reply Jocky, but I don't understand your reasoning. If malt extract is produced by mashing, boiling and condensing before the cans are filled at high temperature as is normal in canning/preserving, how can there be volatile substances that need boiling off or a risk of infection. In all my years of kit brewing I have always considered can contents to be ready boiled and sterile. The issue is do hops and malt need to be boiled together and if so why? In future I will be adding the LME after the boil when the element has cooled to a much lower temperature and the liquor is just below boiling. I will consider reboiling after the LME is desolved if anybody can give me a good reason why.
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Jocky
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Re: When to add the LME
Yes I agree that most of the volatile substances should have been boiled off and cans of extract should be sterile. As I said above, plenty of people do without and are fine. Equally I know that Brupaks recommend boiling their kit extract for best results.
Regarding hops - conventional wisdom is that hops do need to be boiled in some kind of wort to avoid nasty polyphenols/tannins being extracted from the hops. 10-20% of your total malt seems to work just fine. As to why this is is not entirely understood (there's a lot of reactions going on in a kettle!), but the suggestions are:
#1 The malt provides protein in the wort, which reacts with and precipitates (read: drop out as trub) polyphenols and tannins that are produced by hops when boiled.
#2 The malt makes the water slightly acidic (as against regular tap/spring water which is slightly alkaline) which stops polyphenols/tannins being extracted from hops.
Having said that, there are people on other forums that claim to have just boiled hops in water with no ill effects, and there are other people that say that they've done this and created a horrible vegetably mess.
Regarding hops - conventional wisdom is that hops do need to be boiled in some kind of wort to avoid nasty polyphenols/tannins being extracted from the hops. 10-20% of your total malt seems to work just fine. As to why this is is not entirely understood (there's a lot of reactions going on in a kettle!), but the suggestions are:
#1 The malt provides protein in the wort, which reacts with and precipitates (read: drop out as trub) polyphenols and tannins that are produced by hops when boiled.
#2 The malt makes the water slightly acidic (as against regular tap/spring water which is slightly alkaline) which stops polyphenols/tannins being extracted from hops.
Having said that, there are people on other forums that claim to have just boiled hops in water with no ill effects, and there are other people that say that they've done this and created a horrible vegetably mess.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.
Re: When to add the LME
I've heard if you boil the kit it makes it more of a bitter beer.
FV1:
Nothing
FV2:
Nothing
Conditioning:
Guava Wine Batch 1
Drinking:
Gin
Nothing
FV2:
Nothing
Conditioning:
Guava Wine Batch 1
Drinking:
Gin
Re: When to add the LME
Kits I've seen in Wilkos suggest adding spray malt to the fermenter. Also I sometimes do the same when doing a grain beer to increase gravity. I see no difference in using liquid extract as opposed to dry.
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sbond10
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Re: When to add the LME
The only difference between liquid and dry is the extra water I think when something similiar was asked you use a kilo of dry compared to a 1.5 of liquid extract
The use of spray malts in one can kits over simple sugar s is that it gives more mouth feel and a maltier taste when I brewed with sugar it tasted awful pear drop taste throughout. Adding spray malt vastly improves it. Adding grains spraymalt and hops with the addition of boiling further brought the quality of my beer onto a new level
The use of spray malts in one can kits over simple sugar s is that it gives more mouth feel and a maltier taste when I brewed with sugar it tasted awful pear drop taste throughout. Adding spray malt vastly improves it. Adding grains spraymalt and hops with the addition of boiling further brought the quality of my beer onto a new level
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alethos738
Re: When to add the LME
I have just read an article in an american online brewing magazine (byo.com) discussing brewing in a small apartment kitchen and it proposed a three stage method of mash or steep, boil and 'extract late'. For this method they suggest adding the LME after the boil and allowing it to steep in the hot wort for 15 mins to dispell any risk of infection. As I argued earlier in this thread the 15 min steep should not be necessary for canned extract but if you are using bulk LME then infection is possible depending on storage. My next brew will be with spray dried but for economy i intend to move on to bulk LME when i can source it at a good price. So, it is already happening over there and in future I will be able to boast "I brew 'extract late'" and wait for the questions. All of the above assumes brewing on a stove top in a smaller quantity of water, hence the risk of burning or further caramelizing the malt.