give me a break!

[Chard]

I tried a mini BIAB brew on Sunday and I'm afraid to say I'm not converted. i found it more complicated and had a worse final product than i do with a full size brew with a mash tun.

the main problem was the amount of break material I've been left with. the Voile bag i used let a lot of bits through so i filtered through some muslin as well which got blocked pretty quickly!

after the boil the amount of hot and cold break in the pan was massive! tried to filter through voile again but it didnt seem to help.

I now have 2 demijohns of beer fermenting. one has only about 1inch of break at the bottom but the other is about 1/3 break to 2/3 clear beer. hopefully it will compact a bit more though!

All in all i think im going to make a mini mash tun and attach a tap and hopstopper to my boiling pot! before i attempt another batch!

[EoinMag]

Maybe it's not for everyone, I find it great as do lots of others. Horses for courses I suppose. How do you get so much break in your fermenter though? Surely it's actually something else that is going wrong that is stopping the break being filtered out post boil by the hops? I get clear wort the other side of my boil, it's nothing to do with using a bag apart from the fact that the bag technique can let more proteins through. I also find it helps to skim the grey scum which lifts off the top of the boil.

[filet o fish]

I changed my technique this weekend. got some new bits and bobs- protofloc, syphon tube to use with my new 33 litre pan.

this time i put the protofloc in the last ten minutes gave it a big old swirl and left it over night with the lid on and santized tea towel clipped over. next morning syphoned off and i was suprised at the amount of blueergh at the bottom. proper grannys fruitcake shaped lump. The stuff in the fv is so much clearer than last time.
i like the simplicity of just having a big pan to put away till next weekend. i would love to have a garage or a shed and loads of kit but its not likely in that london.

[Chard]

i dont have a hopstopper to i was using a voile wrapped syphon tube (the kind with the inverted head) and pushing it down under all that hops and gunk. i think its partly cos its small scale and partly because i was using a syphon and not a hopstopper that i carried accross so much break.

never the less fermentation has started and we'll see what we get

[potatoes]

My approach to filtering out the break is to put a sieve on top of my pot and then pour the wort into my FV. The sieve plus the hops work as a combined filter so that they hold back the break. Maybe I am doing this wrong but I don’t get much break in FV. Another point is that I only brew 11 litres of beer at one time. This technique might not work when you have to pour 23 litres of beer due to it being heavier and the sieve not covering the enitre pot.

[Chard]

well i was only brewing 10L and i tried the sieve method but to no avail. Hop stopper is the way to go methinks. i just need to decide whether to put a hole in the pot or create some kind of syphon

[RdeV]

My approach to filtering out the break is to put a sieve on top of my pot and then pour the wort into my FV. The sieve plus the hops work as a combined filter so that they hold back the break. Maybe I am doing this wrong but I don’t get much break in FV. Another point is that I only brew 11 litres of beer at one time. This technique might not work when you have to pour 23 litres of beer due to it being heavier and the sieve not covering the enitre pot.

Nope, you're not doing it wrong at all- that's what works for you! Have to agree though, it works for me at the larger 19L scale too, however using leaf hops is a must, pelletised is not much chop. Some break makes it through the filter while it forms its matrix, however generally not enough to be a real problem.

Chard, as Eoin says, horses for courses, at least you've given it a try. I must say I'm surprised by your tale, such enormous amounts of break aren't common however some of the methods and lengths folks go to in trying avoid it are perhaps where they run into more strife. As per the paragraph above, often the simple, obvious methods will actually do the job nicely and there's no need to go to great lengths to avoid a 'problem' completely when it is not really such a biggie.
However, I don't see any value in trying to filter runnings (or boiled wort) through voile or muslin, you probably could've saved yourself the hassle by skipping that. Did you use a flocculant in the boil or chill in- kettle? Both of those combined with a little bit of time (overnight is good) should help to compact the break down to just a few litres, the clearer wort should be easy to either siphon or pour off.
The Mini-BIAB guide works at the 19L pot scale, I wouldn't be trying to overcomplicate it too much in adapting it downward.

[soupdragon]

RdeV.......

Just a thought but how well does the break compact if left overnight to settle? Does it settle into a firm layer or is it easily disturbed? I don't have a tap on my pot so tip through my voile into the fermenter. It seems to take all the break out but the wort still looks rather murky. The beer does turn out fine if slightly hazy.

Cheers Tom

[Chard]

i used whirlfloc and chilled it to 25oC in about 10 mins. got a great cold break but i didnt really have time to wait overnight for it all to settle.

It was a bit of a play and an experiment so ill sort it out before my next brew but i think ill make a mini mash tun to save myself the hassle of bags and dunk sparging. stick to the devil you know and all that.

i think the final beer will be clear enough but i might get a chill haze if i cool it down too much.

[potatoes]

it works for me at the larger 19L scale too, however using leaf hops is a must, pelletised is not much chop. Some break makes it through the filter while it forms its matrix, however generally not enough to be a real problem.

Good to hear it also works at the 19L scale. I have always used leaf hops. As you say, pellet hops would not work. The only real difficult is knowing when to stop pouring. I always lose some wort (maybe a pint) as I dont want to keep pouring the wort as it gets thicker.

[RdeV]

Just a thought but how well does the break compact if left overnight to settle? Does it settle into a firm layer or is it easily disturbed? I don't have a tap on my pot so tip through my voile into the fermenter. It seems to take all the break out but the wort still looks rather murky. The beer does turn out fine if slightly hazy.

Hi Tom, its not really a tough, compact layer but it certainly condenses the longer it is left to settle. I've refrigerated one at few degC under pitching temp for over two days and that yielded the clearest wort when it came time to pour it out and the thickest of the kettle trub was quite simple to avoid. For complete kettle trub avoidance, either siphon or a tap and a pickup are fine, however I don't think the stuff is the big bad bogey it is often made out to be, competition results seem to support this.
With haze, try polyclar/ PVPP, perhaps gelatine, cold conditioning and a fortnight or more of refrigeration prior to serving. I don't get too worked up about clarity though, I feel it is mostly cosmetic and I only go out of my way with it for competitive brewing and that's where it really does annoy the piss out of me.

[RdeV]

i used whirlfloc and chilled it to 25oC in about 10 mins. got a great cold break but i didnt really have time to wait overnight for it all to settle.

It was a bit of a play and an experiment so ill sort it out before my next brew but i think ill make a mini mash tun to save myself the hassle of bags and dunk sparging. stick to the devil you know and all that.

i think the final beer will be clear enough but i might get a chill haze if i cool it down too much.

No sweat, good on you for giving it a go and trying something different.
BTW, dunk sparging shouldn't be necessary with Mini- BIAB, it is what some folks call a 'pure' BIAB where the sparge and mash liquor are combined, a sparge step is really only relevant to Maxi-BIAB, that process is a little bit more mucking around, but well worth it when the kettle volume < brewlength.
See comments above regarding clarity, remember that chill haze isn't something specific to BIAB.

[soupdragon]

With haze, try polyclar/ PVPP, perhaps gelatine, cold conditioning and a fortnight or more of refrigeration prior to serving. I don't get too worked up about clarity though, I feel it is mostly cosmetic and I only go out of my way with it for competitive brewing and that's where it really does annoy the piss out of me.

The haze isn't a problem really and as long as the beer tastes good ( indeed it does ) then I'm happy. I'll have a propper read up on that polyclar stuff but from what I've read you have to rack off the sediment after a couple of days. Or have I miss read something?..............

Cheers Tom