inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

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supergreenmini
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inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by supergreenmini » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:39 pm

I brew with a number of friends and we have increased our brew length to 75Ltr. we predominantly bottle as we have yet to invest in kegs.

At 20 -25lts batches we would make a sugar solution, put that into a bottling bucket and then siphon from the fermentor into the bucket. The gentle swirling of the beer mixing with the sugar solution.
What we are now finding is inconsistency in the carbonation of bottles with some being extremely fizzy and some being light on carbination. WE have started reducing the amount of sugar thinking we were over carbing but now i am wondering that with such a large volume of beer, the sugar solution is not mixing equally leaving less sugar at the top and more sugar at the bottom of the bottling vessel. Does this sound possible?
What solutions are there? Do breweries add sugar to bottle condition?

I don't want to add sugar to each bottle (140ish) but i was thinking i could syringe a small amount of sugar solution into each bottle (not ideal). I could not add any sugar but surley that will not carb/condition. I would rather not split into 3 x 25 ltr batches for bottling, either.

Maybe we all need to get kegs!!!
Drinking: Elderflower Pale Ale, Stout
Conditioning: Sierra Nervarda Porter
FV: Pale Ale

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orlando
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Re: inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by orlando » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:14 pm

supergreenmini wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:39 pm
Maybe we all need to get kegs!!!
:D

To be sure you could mark the last 10 bottles and for that matter the first 10 and that might tell you about the mixing. There is a natural caution about over stirring the beer to limit O2 pick up, however, the yeast will scavenge that oxygen and reduce it so you just need to decide which is worse. It's only if you are storing the beer for a long time that it is likely to show as a problem. How long does the beer last? :lol:
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chefgage
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Re: inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by chefgage » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:41 pm

I was finding this but not just with large batches,even my small 12l batches seemed to suffer from it. I always used to rely on the beer being poured over the sugar solution was enough to mix it all together but was finding this was not the case.
I started then stiriing after the bottling bucket was full. I used my large stainless mash paddle to very gently move the beer around rather that actually stiring it. This seems to do the trick.

TheSumOfAllBeers
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Re: inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:16 pm

I syringe into every bottle. Not fun on a 55L brew length.

I still get some variation as my reservoir of priming solution settles I think.

Carbonation drops are a solution. They will get you to ~2.1 vols per 500ml bottle which is a bit low for some styles. You also have to deal with paying 1600% markup on basic sugar.

If you get into kegging, consider a combination of keg priming and force carbing prior to bottling. This works very well for beers that need aging, and high gravity beers that may struggle to bottle condition.

Also consider using a cheap king keg as a priming bucket. Purge the keg with CO2 add your priming solution with your beer and fill the headspace. You can then agitate to mix without introducing O2 or bugs.

Instead of a king keg you could use a plastic refillable polypin in the same way

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Kev888
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Re: inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by Kev888 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:01 pm

orlando wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:14 pm
There is a natural caution about over stirring the beer to limit O2 pick up, however, the yeast will scavenge that oxygen and reduce it so you just need to decide which is worse.
Yes a slightly thorny subject. My own feeling is that if one avoids unnecessary splashing when stirring, then in a home-brew context with live yeast (especially doing the priming fermentation) in the bottle it shouldn't be a great problem, whereas variable carbonation will be an obvious one.

I read something recently that suggested oxygen in the neck-space could actually be raised due to the disturbance of bottling liberating dissolved oxygen from the beer. I wonder if in some cases a gentle stir before bottling could even be a good thing.... though that is only a thought, I have no idea if there would be a net gain or loss of oxygen.
Kev

Fil
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Re: inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by Fil » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:04 pm

in my limited experience with batches upto 75l, when bottling and priming each bottle inevitably one or two will get missed and an equal number will probably get a double dose..

I would look at ways to ensure a good mix of priming solution with the bulk before exploring dosing bottles individually. could you mix a larger weaker priming solution and pour it in pace with the draining of the FV?

with a co2 supply you could purge air out with co2 lid and rock side to side stir etc without worry of o2??

a small submersible pump could be lowered into the beer as long as its not pumping a fountain out from the surface and the out flow is directed into the bulk it should not enable oxidation, however sanitation could be a concern.
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
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Re: inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by aamcle » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:26 pm

If it's a big batch add water runny syrup stir well and leave it to finish mixing for say 1/2 hr, I use the time prepping the other parts of the bottling run.

Try not to get air into it but you must get the body of the liquid moving and the syrup should be distributed over the liquid rather than just pored in one place.

A good stir and a bit of time for it to finish mixing will make a big difference.

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Re: inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by IPA » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:15 am

chefgage wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:41 pm
I started then stiriing after the bottling bucket was full. I used my large stainless mash paddle to very gently move the beer around rather that actually stiring it. This seems to do the trick.
I add the priming solution when the bottling bucket is full. I swirl the beer with a paddle and slowly pour in the solution. Works perfectly. Tip. If you want to check how the beer is conditioning use a plastic bottle for the first one and from then on a simple squeeze of the bottle will tell you how carbonation is progressing.
For the record my usual batch size is 57 litres. Also beer will condition without priming. It just takes a lot longer.
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supergreenmini
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Re: inconsistent bottle conditioning with large batches

Post by supergreenmini » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:44 am

Thank you all and as always some great tips/ experiences shared.

I'm going to try the stirring (gently) method and adding the solution on the top.

Thanks for the plastic bottle and marking the first 10 and last 10 bottles from the batch suggestions. I'll introduce these into my regime and see how we get on.

Mark
Drinking: Elderflower Pale Ale, Stout
Conditioning: Sierra Nervarda Porter
FV: Pale Ale

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