Low Pressure Regulator advice

A forum to discuss the various ways of getting beer into your glass.
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Kev888
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Re: Low Pressure Regulator advice

Post by Kev888 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:35 am

Going back to the OP though: low pressure transfers need only a couple of PSI, which I just about manage with a primary + secondary regulator. The latter has a lower range pressure gauge than is normal, as I replaced it with a 15psi type, though care is needed as over-pressure smacking the needle against full-scale would harm it. I also have a low pressure PRV on the fermenter (IIRC 3psi) to avoid accidents; this is from rob/the-malt-miller and is a combined pressure inlet/prv doofa on the same tri-clamp.

EDIT: incidentally, I see Rob has the grainfather pressure-transfer kit in, now. Looks like they use a digital gauge, and a needle valve for flow rate, though presumably (and I'm only guessing) pressure still needs to be set by one's own regulator.
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PeeBee
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Re: Low Pressure Regulator advice

Post by PeeBee » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:54 am

jaroporter wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:17 pm
heh think i'm just gonna agree to disagree before even starting here. each to their own. that's the beauty of DIY.. :D
Hadn't a clue what you were talking about. But after Kev's posts and reviewing the thread, the thread does appear to have wandered all over the place!!!

I hope "TheSumOfAllBeers" manages to glean something useful from all of this.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Low Pressure Regulator advice

Post by PeeBee » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:53 pm

Kev888 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:49 am
If the intention is to replicate truly traditional cask-conditioned beer at home ...
Fine summary.

I cover all this in my "treatise" linked above but it's a mammoth read. I include a description of using small "intermediary" vessels to get closer to CAMRA ideals but don't do it myself (I pinched the idea from "Dads_Ale" but he appears to have abandoned it now?). Also speculated on achieving sub-atmosphereic pressure carbonation which you can't get using "breathers" (but uses mixed gas; I'd be eaten alive by CAMRA campaigners - if they could be bothered with what we do in our own homes).

I was describing re-establishing pressure above, but neglected to add this will require a demand-valve (hand-pump "check-valve" <sic>) or a manual beer-line shut-off valve (you can see one in "Dads_Ale's" pics) or the pressure can push beer through the hand-pump. I'd disagree with "Kev888's" warning about this technique "causing variation" - isn't that what "Real Ale" is all about?
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Kev888
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Re: Low Pressure Regulator advice

Post by Kev888 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:02 pm

Ha yes, traditional cask ale is a changing beast, which is part of its joy if managed with skill. Though after several days it becomes a bugbear for homebrewers, who may take far longer to finish a cask than even the best cellarmen would normally consider reasonable. It is a different context and personally I'm not keen to transpose ideals if they mean serving heavily oxidated beer.

But if one has opted for a regulated system, carefully balanced to maintain equilibrium wrt subtle carbonation 'just so', then changing pressure to serve seems inherently undesirable to me, and shouldn't really be necessary. Though in truth the effects aren't very profound with cask-like levels - it is the more highly carbonated systems that tend to foam with reduction in pressure.
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Re: Low Pressure Regulator advice

Post by jaroporter » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:00 pm

the other best of both worlds approach if you're organised enough is to keg at minimum pressure like you suggest and draw off a jug a coupla hours before you want to drink it. the reduction of carbonation to cask levels and oxidation/evaporation of volatiles smooth the ale off just like a well kept cask.
dazzled, doused in gin..

McMullan

Re: Low Pressure Regulator advice

Post by McMullan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:22 am

This is an interesting thread and timely for me, as I’ve just started using a cask and beer engine. So it’s a learning curve for me. All I can add is that I used a cask breather and it kept oxidation levels below detection for just over two weeks, by which time the very fine ale had been consumed. The only negative was the ale losing condition after a week or so. My next batch going through the hand pump is going to be from a keg (CaskWidge float) with a few psi from the CO2 and a demand valve. The next time I use a cask, probably Easter, I think I’ll try an adjustable LPG regulator, as used by PeeBee, but without a bubble counter initially.

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Re: Low Pressure Regulator advice

Post by PeeBee » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:48 am

PeeBee wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:56 am
... But after several days the head became pretty ordinary as equilibrium was attained (I was serving at 2PSI). I guess I'd have retained the striking head (look, no Nitrogen!) if I'd had wound the pressure back up to 4-5PSI when not serving. ...
Let me put that statement into context, this is what I call an "ordinary" head:
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2 minutes after serving. At five minutes the head has pancaked. It's just a ring around the glass by half-way drunk.

But porter/stout is renowned for having good head development. I'm now not so keen to wind pressure up to 4-5PSI between serving, because even at 2PSI there is a noticeable "prickle" in this porter. I'll keep working on the "low cask, high cask" technique for stout and drop the low cask down to 0.75PSI (50mbar).

BTW. I don't consider a head to be important. But I do like the challenge.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

TheSumOfAllBeers
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Re: Low Pressure Regulator advice

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:18 pm

PeeBee wrote:
TheSumOfAllBeers wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:39 pm
... I could do cask breather with a polypin in a bagpipe fashion if I needed to
No Point. If using a polypin atmospheric pressure will collapse the bag as beer is removed. So the cask breather will do nothing.
I didn't clarify - I planned to use a CO2 filled polypin without a regulator, in case low psi regs didn't quite work for me.

Thanks to all the responses guys, as the OP this thread is still helpful

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