Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Discuss making up beer kits - the simplest way to brew.
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Dabooka
Steady Drinker
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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Penshaw, nr Newcastle

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Dabooka » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:25 pm

I thought 30 was a tad high!

The pressure gauge I have bought ranges 0-15psi. I'll post a pic when I finally attach it to my lid. I must confess I like the idea of the valve, very ingenious.
FV1 - Cooper's English Bitter
FV2 - Patiently waiting... (Stout à la Ditch planned!)
Keg 1 - Patiently waiting...

Travis

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Travis » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:10 pm

The pressure was "3" psi (3.0) it just looked looked 30 as the decimal point wasn't visible, the barrel is rated up to 10psi, the whole object of the exercise is when the beer is transfered from the FV to the pressure barrel "I" know what pressure is in the barrel? high or low.

R1ch

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by R1ch » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:28 pm

Quite taken by this idea.. Mainly because I have a spare 2" cap barrel, A car tyre type co2 inflater, and a pressure gauge already. A car tyre valve is now on it's way to me.

Many thanks for the idea!

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Dabooka
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Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Dabooka » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:57 pm

Travis wrote:The pressure was "3" psi (3.0) it just looked looked 30 as the decimal point wasn't visible, the barrel is rated up to 10psi, the whole object of the exercise is when the beer is transfered from the FV to the pressure barrel "I" know what pressure is in the barrel? high or low.
That was my thinking when I ordered the gauge, I had a hole to fill on the lid and figured might as well see what's happening inside. Thanks for letting me know the PSI, I guessed the 0-15 would be ideal (it was the lowest range I could find) but wasn't sure. I just need to track down the right sized nut in brass now.... :roll:
FV1 - Cooper's English Bitter
FV2 - Patiently waiting... (Stout à la Ditch planned!)
Keg 1 - Patiently waiting...

Travis

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel, a little more

Post by Travis » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:09 pm

As my (5) 40 pint barrels get lower & lower with beer, the more Co2 I will have to put in, as the volume of the barrel is now greater, great news for the brew shop!

Co2 is heavier than air? I have a budget £5 12v car tyre inflator/compressor along with a battery boost pack with a cig-lite socket; I plug the compressor into the boost pack & top up the pressure barrel with air through the tyre valve. (yes they have compressors built in some boost packs)

There then will be a blanket of Co2 on the beer with additional air pressure on top of the Co2, saving hell of a lot on Co2 Cartridges’.

Regards Travis.

Trunky

:)

Post by Trunky » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:21 pm

:)
Last edited by Trunky on Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Travis

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Travis » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:15 pm

CO2 is heavier than diatomic nitrogen, oxygen and under the right conditions can stay below other atmospheric constituents.

“Under cool static barrel conditions” there would no vertical mixing & remain layered, therefore keeping my beer fresh.

However, "iff" the “temperature” were to go up & “agitation” occurs, there will be vertical mixing, Co2 molecules may be slightly heavier than other air molecules, when mixed in this situation it will be essentially impossible to un-mix them.

It is the nature of gases for the different constituents to mix. This is because on a molecular level, the molecules are not bonded to each other like they are in a liquid or a solid. Agitation means that gravity has very little effect on individual molecules compared to kinetic energy molecular collisions bouncing them in all direction and once mixed, again there is no way for a gas to settle out due to gravity. So don't shake the barrel.

Travis.

(It works for me)

Trunky

:)

Post by Trunky » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:39 pm

:)
Last edited by Trunky on Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jmc
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Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by jmc » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:33 pm

+1 to Trunky's view that Air & CO2 will mix.

Never mind the fact you are adding the air in a fast-moving presurised state, even if it started as a blanket, you can't get around the second law of thermodynamics. Gases will mix due to diffusion if no other cause.

Stick to using just CO2.

aleian

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by aleian » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:03 pm

Travis - I like the idea of the valve for checking pressure and even for topping up with air at the end of the barrel to get the last few pints out but added air will definitely mix with the CO2 already in the barrel, both through steady diffusion and, more importantly, by blowing it at pressure on to the settled layer in the barrel. If you're drinking what's left soon after adding air then no problem, but you will be adding oxygen to your beer if you leave it for any length of time and you won't be keeping it fresh for long. Using an S30 cylinder to top up my barrels with CO2 has cost me less than a fiver in the last six months, it's not an crippling expense and I wouldn't risk losing half a barrel of beer for the sake of 50p

Travis

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Travis » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:57 pm

Please read it again, in a stable barrel with “no” agitation Co2 will lay on the beer & air will lay on top i.e. don’t shake the barrel. Agitation will mix the Co2 & air & it will not separate, it works for me, have you tried it or are you theorising?

I give a new brew 40 pint barrel of beer (after maturation & draw off down to 2.5/3.0 psi) one squirt of Co2 to bring it up to 10psi, checked with my tyre valve & gauge, as the pressure drops due to draw off I again check it down to 2.5/3.0 psi & top up with air at a slow rate i.e. 20 seconds will bring the pressure back up to 10 psi & again as required.

I like to buck the trend, blank sheet, experiment, how else will progress be made? People laugh at my tyre valve, but it works for me, the way I brew, works for me, air on top of Co2 works for me.

Please explain the “fast moving pressurised state?”

Travis.

(Beer with a good head & a long life)

Trunky

:)

Post by Trunky » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:13 pm

:)
Last edited by Trunky on Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

boingy

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by boingy » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:15 am

Actually, I think the tyre valve idea is not so good either. It's neither food grade nor sanitary. As for injecting air into the barrel, well, maybe he's just been lucky or maybe he just can't taste oxidisation...

(The troll comment made me laugh) :D

gnutz2

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by gnutz2 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:56 am

I put a valve in all my kegs (3 of them) when i bought them and it has been an invaluable tool in teaching me what is going on inside the kegs. So much so that i can usually tell when the kegs need gassing have without checking them. Most of my kegs hold about 11psi.

They are also a great tool for telling how well secondary fermentation is going.

I've never had any infections apart from a dodgy brupaks wheat beer i did once, but i think wheat beer's supposed to taste like that #-o

If anyone is intrested i used a 12.5mm drill bit and then de burr'd the edges with a deburring tool.

As far as pumping the kegs with a foot pump, i just use co2 because it's so cheap.

I get a 7kg cylinder from woodlands in thirsk, it's £15 deposit for the cylinder and £15 to fill it every time. So far i've done about 7 kegs of beer and as far as i can see the needle on my regulator has'nt mooved.

Image
Image
The valve in the picture is for a motorbike.

Wezzel

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Wezzel » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:14 am

Thanks Travis. What a brilliant idea. I've been toying with the idea of fitting a pressure guage since I resurected my brewing hobby. This is such a simple and clever idea.

I went down the local tyre shop yesterday and picked up three new tyre valves gratis. I shall get drilling tonight!

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