Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Discuss making up beer kits - the simplest way to brew.
Spud395

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Spud395 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:51 pm

alethos wrote:To get any air in at all you have to exceed the pressure in the barrel and you are pumping it in through a small hole in the schrader valve so you will get at least a flow of air.
But it is the second part of the answer that is important. Because of the kinetic energy of the molecules the gases will mix. This page has a simulation http://www.chm.davidson.edu/vce/Kinetic ... usion.html
It's very difficult to force a blind man to see alethos :wink:

Travis

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Travis » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:13 am

Sorry I fell asleep again. Leeesten Vereeee Carefullly I will say zeeees onleee once, what i do is fine & works for me (for the past 2yrs I have had really good beer with a realllllly good creamy head) I have never(hopefully) tried to have people follow my methods. I published them so people could see the other side of the coin & may be a chuckle at the mad professor, I don't think you even have a coin? To criticize a method of completing a task I would at least expect the person to have tried it more than once & come up with a suitable reply with where it went wrong & or where it went right? Not hypothesize? I have this clean sheet approach to methods, see what has been done in the past & create a new start.

Travis.

(Just think Irish coffee & how they add the cream?)


(Always honoring G*d in everything we do - in all our business?)

alethos

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by alethos » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:08 am

Wakey! Wakey! The valve idea is great and I am pleased for you that you are able to brew good beer, that is what we all aim to do. My issue is with the science, and you correctly mentioned the kinetic molecular theory but you concluded that you could maintain a protective layer of CO2 between the beer and the air and I disagree. My understanding of the theory is that they will mix. Somebody with a less rigorous approach to cleaning and sterilising etc. could end up with a spoiled beer by adding more oxygen to a less excellent beer than yours. A happy new year to you, Travis and not to much Irish coffee!

Travis

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Travis » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:59 pm

You hit the nail on the head, "your understanding of the theory?" I am doing it practically. Reference the Irish Coffee? did you not see the similarities in the analogy? How the cream gets added to the coffee yet doesn't mix? The cream sits on top of the coffee? (tut tut)

The Co2 is heavier than air, fact, by gently adding air at a low volume rate the air rests on top of the Co2. fact. Providing the barrel is not disturbed they will not mix & if they do mix they will not separate, (ref the Irish Coffee)



Hopefully, you stay with your theory & I will carry out the practical's, we will just have to agree to disagree. Really hope this is the end of the topic? as I think we need to get down to actually brewing beer! You probably would or should I say definitely disagree on my methods of brewing beer. I drink I.P.A's & locally brewed Lancashire Bitter's , from this I have been able to brew beers seriously close to the pub beers I enjoy. How I do it? soorrrry it would cause toooo much concern with endless replies "&" life is a little too short. Like I say "it works for me"



(I don't just dream this stuff up my Wife (Scientist) works with gasses in the Nuclear industry & I run my idea's past her, she does a practical test to see if it's viable, the same with my brewing, so I have a good eye looking over my shoulder)

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Jocky
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Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Jocky » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:20 am

You know it's possible that both sides are right here.

Adding normal air to your barrel probably disturbs the CO2 blanket.

But then the beer is producing more CO2 anyway, and the amount of air is not enough to dilute the CO2 already in the barrel to produce a significant amount of oxidisation that can be tasted - compared to most foodstuffs, beer is fairly hardy stuff.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

Travis

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Travis » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:09 pm

Jocky, thank you very much, that is the reply I have been looking for however couldn't put into words. The beer is making Co2 (which is heavier) from below & pushing the air (which is lighter) upwards & away from the beer, yet increasing the pressure in the barrel.



(As I say, what I do is for me & works for me. Since I have been topping up my barrels with gentle added air on top of the natural Co2 The beer head has never been so full & creamy & long lasting. Perhaps I should get my Wife (Scientist) to run the beer head through the lab to see what the combined molecular components are in it?)

(As per Irish Coffee, the cream sits on top of the coffee & it doesn't mix, till you disturb it?)
oo

alethos

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by alethos » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:29 am

If you believe that gases behave like liquids then that explains your misunderstanding of the kinetic molecular theory. At normal temperatures and and pressures gases mix. Liquids are much much more dense and don't necessarily mix especially if they contain lots of lipids like cream. Liquids slump in a container, gases completely fill it. The gas in your barrel will diffuse (mix completely) within an hour. Thats what they do . There is so much space between gas molecules they just slide past each other. Please refer to the scientist. I also thank Jocky for trying to pour oil on trouble waters. I await the results of your gas analysis, if you can get it out of the barrel without mixing it.
I am not knocking your brewing techniques and I applaud your ability to produce good beer, long may you do so . Again, Happy New Year.

alethos

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by alethos » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:28 pm

Travis wrote:Please read it again, in a stable barrel with “no” agitation Co2 will lay on the beer & air will lay on top i.e. don’t shake the barrel. Agitation will mix the Co2 & air & it will not separate, it works for me, have you tried it or are you theorising?

I give a new brew 40 pint barrel of beer (after maturation & draw off down to 2.5/3.0 psi) one squirt of Co2 to bring it up to 10psi, checked with my tyre valve & gauge, as the pressure drops due to draw off I again check it down to 2.5/3.0 psi & top up with air at a slow rate i.e. 20 seconds will bring the pressure back up to 10 psi & again as required.

I like to buck the trend, blank sheet, experiment, how else will progress be made? People laugh at my tyre valve, but it works for me, the way I brew, works for me, air on top of Co2 works for me.

Please explain the “fast moving pressurised state?”

Travis.

(Beer with a good head & a long life)
7 psi in 20 seconds! I can't pump up my car tyres that fast. Air and beer shouldn't be mixed and air and CO2 mix because there is nothing to stop them. You control the contact between air and your beer. Good luck.

Travis

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Travis » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:35 am

Yes I doooo seem to have good luck, with my method, you seem to looooooose sleep to contradict my methods, or you wouldn't keep replying? As I said before, its run its course, let it drop, let it go , let it goooooo lets talk about really brewing beer!!!

Now please "[censored]-OFF"

Iff you can't blow your tyres up, get a new pump!

Kingfisher4
Steady Drinker
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm

Re: Car Tyre Valve in my pressure barrel

Post by Kingfisher4 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:44 am

Ditch wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:02 am
Here's Travis's shots. Perhaps he'd like to describe them:
Is there any chance of revisiting this idea; the initial posts seemed ingenious and useful. If anyone has experience of this modification and could share a basic how to guide with ( non photo bucket) pics and a basic idiots guide it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

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