Hi guys.
I wanted to make a [URLï¼http://www.coopers.com.au/the-brewers-g ... g/julebryg]cooper julebryg[/URL] adaptation, and went to the local place to pick up the malt extract. They didn't have any coopers amber extract, so instead, I picked up the closest they did have:
http://www.hopshopuk.com/products/view/ ... -1-5kg-tin
Now, I didn't realise this was a diastatic malt extract, but, from what I understand on reading around, these types are used when extract brewing mainly to convert extra sugars from specialist malts?! With this in mind, would it be worth using this just as a LME? Or, would I be better off keeping it and using it for when I finally get around to extract brewing (hopefully)?!
I have some crystal malt I could use to steep for some extra sugars. Would that be worth doing, with this malt extract in mind?
Also, which kit would you say would be best to adapt for the julebryg? I already have in some coopers English bitter, real ale, aussy pale ale. But, I was thinking it might be best with the coopers dark ale. What would you all recommend? I'd probably prefer to use the English bitter, but not sure whether the bitter properties of this would go well with the rest of the ingredients. What would you all do?
Diastatic LME question for kit adaptation
Diastatic LME question for kit adaptation
Last edited by lovelldr on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rootsbrew
Re: LME question for kit adaptation
Firstly, regarding diastatic extract: You probably need to do some reading about diastatic malts. I'm not expert but from what I can gather from a quick glance around the net, it's to do with diastatic power. Diastatic power is a relative term that is used to describe the amount of starch breaking enzymes available in any given malt. The higher the power, the more of these enzymes. Again, from a quick bit of research, diastatic extract seems necessary when using grains/extract that don't have sufficient diastatic power to convert enough of their own starches to simpler carbohydrates that yeast can act on.
I'd be keer to know what others think/say - It might be OK to treat as standard LME but, you may need to mix up the brew and leave to stand for a day before adding the yeast, to let the enzymes get to work? It might make the beer slower to clear because it might have more 6-row barley? You probably need to do some general reading on this. Interesting but potentially technical!
About the beer you're trying to make - from the base ingredients (excluding flavourings), it looks like it should be a red ale with quite high alcohol, some residual sugar and only a touch of bitterness? The Coopers ingredients list recommends one of their own kits, apart from trying to sell the kits, it's because they have a number of ingredients pre-added, like some pre-hopping and the yeast sachet attached! Bear in mind you don't want anything with too much citrus hop flavour, only the earthy bitterness; this should be OK because the recipe doesn't call for leaf hops.
Looking at the Coopers site, the best options (to my mind) would be either (a) their Real Ale or (b) their English Bitter. Have you made either of these "straight up" and can you remember what they taste like?
- using one of their darks would probably produce a porter-style, which is great if that's what you want but remember the steeping the vanilla and muscadavo will darken the beer somewhat. Moreover, you want these additional ingredients to have a darkening effect, which wouldn't happen if starting out with dark malt extract. I guess a key might be to mimic their suggestion of LME in whatever kit you get - if recipe says dark LME, use a dark kit; if recipe says light LME, use a pale kit.
Good luck and report back with what you're up to!
I'd be keer to know what others think/say - It might be OK to treat as standard LME but, you may need to mix up the brew and leave to stand for a day before adding the yeast, to let the enzymes get to work? It might make the beer slower to clear because it might have more 6-row barley? You probably need to do some general reading on this. Interesting but potentially technical!
About the beer you're trying to make - from the base ingredients (excluding flavourings), it looks like it should be a red ale with quite high alcohol, some residual sugar and only a touch of bitterness? The Coopers ingredients list recommends one of their own kits, apart from trying to sell the kits, it's because they have a number of ingredients pre-added, like some pre-hopping and the yeast sachet attached! Bear in mind you don't want anything with too much citrus hop flavour, only the earthy bitterness; this should be OK because the recipe doesn't call for leaf hops.
Looking at the Coopers site, the best options (to my mind) would be either (a) their Real Ale or (b) their English Bitter. Have you made either of these "straight up" and can you remember what they taste like?
- using one of their darks would probably produce a porter-style, which is great if that's what you want but remember the steeping the vanilla and muscadavo will darken the beer somewhat. Moreover, you want these additional ingredients to have a darkening effect, which wouldn't happen if starting out with dark malt extract. I guess a key might be to mimic their suggestion of LME in whatever kit you get - if recipe says dark LME, use a dark kit; if recipe says light LME, use a pale kit.
Good luck and report back with what you're up to!
Re: LME question for kit adaptation
Cheers for the reply. That was the main reason why I wasn't sure about using it to brew with. So, if someone could let me know whether it would have any side effects or anything,then that'd be great
As for the kit to use, I have done an English bitter, but it's still in fv at the mo, so I have no idea on how it looks or tastes when finished. My preferable kit to use was the English bitter, but didn't know whether it would be too bitter or not for the style of beer. But will hopefully get it on this weekend
As for the kit to use, I have done an English bitter, but it's still in fv at the mo, so I have no idea on how it looks or tastes when finished. My preferable kit to use was the English bitter, but didn't know whether it would be too bitter or not for the style of beer. But will hopefully get it on this weekend
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rootsbrew
Re: LME question for kit adaptation
1.5kg English Bitter + 1.5kg amber LME + aromatics, should be quite low bitterness overall. If you're worried about it being too bitter, omit the saaz from the "boil" - add them later or not at all. In fact, this looks like a really good wintery recipe - I might have to put it on myself - Thanks!
Perhaps edit the thread title to include something about the diastatic question? Hopefully someone can elaborate and say whether you can press on - I assume you were thinking of using it instead of the amber LME?
Perhaps edit the thread title to include something about the diastatic question? Hopefully someone can elaborate and say whether you can press on - I assume you were thinking of using it instead of the amber LME?
Re: Diastatic LME question for kit adaptation
Cheers, updated thread title now. Looking forward to getting this on this weekend so has plenty of time to mature for Christmas. Will probably need a little longer, but will at least have a taster of it over Christmas, and have some over January left over
And yes, was meaning to use the dms instead of the amber LME if it's possible (which hopefully someone can say). Otherwise, I'll just have to use it for extract if i can, otherwise, I'll just have to find someone else I can pass it on to...
And yes, was meaning to use the dms instead of the amber LME if it's possible (which hopefully someone can say). Otherwise, I'll just have to use it for extract if i can, otherwise, I'll just have to find someone else I can pass it on to...
Re: Diastatic LME question for kit adaptation
Any further comment on this?
Can I use the dms as an LME replacement? Or would there be some side effect from it? Would I be best to use 2 x 500g medium and 1 x 500g light dme as a replacement? I understand that this will probably make it more potent, as dme has more ferment able sugar than LME per weight, but wouldn't be all bad would it?!
If so, I'd just cook the dme when doing the hops and spices. But obviously would prefer to use the dms LME if possible...
Can I use the dms as an LME replacement? Or would there be some side effect from it? Would I be best to use 2 x 500g medium and 1 x 500g light dme as a replacement? I understand that this will probably make it more potent, as dme has more ferment able sugar than LME per weight, but wouldn't be all bad would it?!
If so, I'd just cook the dme when doing the hops and spices. But obviously would prefer to use the dms LME if possible...
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rootsbrew
Re: Diastatic LME question for kit adaptation
Short answer: use the DMS, instead of LME, so you can get things going.
Long answer:
I might be wrong but I can't find any suggestion, anywhere, that there would be a problem using DMS as a substitute for LME. Don't know what colour it'll be though. Enzymes are proteins so perhaps you'll have to use the same fining agents that bind to tannins, if it doesn't clear readily.
Adding some oats would certainly use up the excess enzymes. And, from what I can gather, doing so improves viscosity; so, if it's a Christmas beer, they'll help it seem extra luxurious. Have a look here. Dave, Horden Hillbilly, explains how to use adjuncts (partial mash section). Partial mash is a correct use for DMS, in case you're worried about substituting.
Long answer:
I might be wrong but I can't find any suggestion, anywhere, that there would be a problem using DMS as a substitute for LME. Don't know what colour it'll be though. Enzymes are proteins so perhaps you'll have to use the same fining agents that bind to tannins, if it doesn't clear readily.
Adding some oats would certainly use up the excess enzymes. And, from what I can gather, doing so improves viscosity; so, if it's a Christmas beer, they'll help it seem extra luxurious. Have a look here. Dave, Horden Hillbilly, explains how to use adjuncts (partial mash section). Partial mash is a correct use for DMS, in case you're worried about substituting.
Re: Diastatic LME question for kit adaptation
Just a quick update to this thread...
In the end,I went for a dme combo for this recipe... Decided would keep the dms fit when I'm a little more adventurous (and missus not around :p). So, brewed this almost a month ago. Just finished 2 weeks in warmth, and gave it a taste. Gotta say, was really quite nice. Can feel I've had a drink with it, and tastes are quite nicely mixed together... Looking forward to cold conditioning for a month or so, as think definitely needs it for bubbles at least. But sure taste well only get better...
In the end,I went for a dme combo for this recipe... Decided would keep the dms fit when I'm a little more adventurous (and missus not around :p). So, brewed this almost a month ago. Just finished 2 weeks in warmth, and gave it a taste. Gotta say, was really quite nice. Can feel I've had a drink with it, and tastes are quite nicely mixed together... Looking forward to cold conditioning for a month or so, as think definitely needs it for bubbles at least. But sure taste well only get better...