Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

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Dave49

Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by Dave49 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:26 pm

I've tried googling this, and cannot find a definitive answer, but can you make anything approaching drinkable from the juice that supermarkets sell as "made from concentrate"? All I get from google are references to Frozen grape juice, or Welch's concentrate. But I'm talking about the Store brand cheap cartons of juice, orange, apple, pineapple etc? Anyone know/done it? :roll:

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Pinto
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Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by Pinto » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:46 pm

You mean a turbocider or WOW ? :lol:

Yeah, there are hundreds of recipies on here Dave -Just search Turbo cider to get you started.
Primary 1: Nonthing
Primary 2 : Nothing
Primary 3 : None
Secondary 1 : Empty
Secondary 1 : None
DJ(1) : Nowt
DJ(2) : N'otin....
In the Keg : Nada
Conditioning : Nowt
In the bottle : Cinnamonator TC, Apple Boost Cider, Apple & Strawberry Cider
Planning : AG #5 - Galaxy Pale (re-brew) / #6 - Alco-Brau (Special Brew Clone) / #7 Something belgian...
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Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by oldbloke » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:22 am

"from concentrate" stuff is made to taste Ok as a drink, to taste very close to the not-from stuff. Otherwise it wouldn't sell! It'll have roughly the same amounts of everything in it. It's just a lot cheaper to ship concentrate round the world than finished juices. The only thing to watch for is if they chuck in extra ingredients (apart from, say, non-suplhite anti-oxidants). That could indicate a lower quality starting juice, or something that would interfere with fermentation.
I haven't done a turbocider that didn't depend on Suma apple juice concentrate for its primary ingredient for a couple of years now. And it makes a better cider, because I can get more apple into the same volume (sadly upping the ABV as more sugar comes with that extra apple, but hey)

I mean, what's juice? A bunch of chemicals floating about in some water. Concentrate just takes out the water. And then before they put it on the shelves, they put the water back. What's the big deal?

Dave49

Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by Dave49 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:49 pm

Thanks guys, appreciate the replies.... :D

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Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by Capped » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:07 pm

Well.... I'm not bothered about wine at the best of times but the missus likes a drop, to put it mildly. After over a year messing around with 'from concentrate' juices, I've made every combo possible and she declared every one to be good to very good. However I've stopped experimenting and settled on the one she's decided is the best - for five gallons I use 4 litres of good quality red grape juice, 6 litres of Asda's el cheapo 'from concentrate' apple juice and 3 kilos of sugar. Usual cheap wine kit techniques apply. Done and dusted in 2 weeks flat then I start the whole sorry cycle again. Like I say, a 3 quid bottle of wine tastes the same as a 30 quid one to me, but the missus reckons everything else, wherever it comes from, to be undrinkable cack in comparison. There's always hell to pay if I slack on the routine a little and she actually runs out of the stuff. Make of that what you will.

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Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by oldbloke » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:34 pm

Any particular grape juice?

gobuchul

Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by gobuchul » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:19 pm

Capped - I might give this a go.

I have never made wine before, can you give a bit more information?

You make 5 gallons with 10 litres of juice - is the difference made up of water?

What are the "usual cheap wine kit techniques"? Do you have a link to a decent website?

Many thanks

bobsbeer

Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by bobsbeer » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:02 pm

The usual ratio is 1lt grape juice and 1 lt fruit juice per 5lt plus about 800g sugar. I usually make 25 lt and use 6lt grape juice and 6lt juice, plus 4kg sugar. You can use whatever juice you fancy, but I generally use 1lt apple in the mix, then maybe 2 or 3 grapefruit and 2 of another juice such as pomegranate or passion fruit. Also add 1tsp tannin and 1 tsp pectolase per 5lt. I use powder tannin but others use a tea bag. I also add 1/2tsp tartaric acid to help raise the ph.

At the moment there seems to be no white grape juice available, certainly in my area, so have been using Don Simone Red grape juice from Asda in the fridges. Makes a good rosé.

When it comes to method, I usually put all the sugar into a big pan and add enough water to make a thick slurry. I also add the tannin to this and the tartaric acid. Bring this to the boil slowly to dissolve the sugar. Be very careful when it comes to the boil or it will boil over. By raising the heat slowly the acid will start to convert the sugar, which helps it along. Add all the juice to the fermenter and then add the boiled sugar mix. No need to let it cool. Then top up to 25 lt with cold water, mix in the pectolase, check the temperature and if below 25c add the yeast. I like Youngs White Bordeaux, but Lalvin 71B is also good. Sprinkle on top and put on the lid and airlock. Give it a swirl after about 15 mins to disperse the yeast. Try to keep the fermenter below 25c. Around 20c is fine. Leave to ferment for around 2 to 3 weeks, then rack and stop then degas and add finings to clear . Job done and it is good to go once bottled.

My usual SG is around 1.090 with an FG around .992, but we like dry wines. Giving you a decent ABV of around 13%. Starting PH is around 3.5 - 3.8.

gobuchul

Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by gobuchul » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:14 pm

Bob - Thanks for all the info.

What do you mean by "stop then degas"?

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Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by oldbloke » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:22 pm

gobuchul wrote:Capped - I might give this a go.

I have never made wine before, can you give a bit more information?

You make 5 gallons with 10 litres of juice - is the difference made up of water?

What are the "usual cheap wine kit techniques"? Do you have a link to a decent website?

Many thanks
Wine is basically a flavour source plus a sugar source plus water plus yeast (pretty much like any booze - wine's just stronger, at typically 12 to 15 %)
Acidity and tannin levels matter for it to taste and feel right.
Proper wine grapes give the exact combo of all that to just crush them and go, hence most commercial wines are made from grapes, but you could use anything.

Adjusting capped's recipe to my usual 1 gallon demijohn, it'd be 1l red grape juice, 1.5l cheapo apple juice (just avoid any with sulphites or sorbates)
That juice combo should get the acidity pretty much right so no messing about with additives required
I'd add just a little powdered tannin as drinking grape juice hasn't as much as wine grapes. A cup of strong tea will do. Or leave it out and have a softer easy drinking wine.
I might use 2l grape juice, too, as there's room and it can only help the flavour.
Maybe a little blackcurrant as a few of those always makes my mixed berry wines better, but if a supermarket juice you have again to avoid sulphites and sorbates
Work out from the packs how much sugar you have, then add enough to get to your desired ABV. As a rule of thumb, 20g sugar per litre gives 1%. I like to go about 14% and it's in 4.5l so I want a total sugar of about 1.260kg.
It can be a good idea to warm all this lot in a big pan to help the sugar dissolve, but even if a load of it sinks to the bottom of your fermenter the yeast will find it and sort it out eventually
Add water to about the 3.5l mark as the initial ferment can be vigorous (top up fully after 4 or 5 days)
Yeast and nutrient
Sit back and wait.

At bottling time (when it stops fermenting) I always rack into a new demi with potassium sorbate and sodium metabisulphite to stabilise it, then give it a few more days for that to work and let it get properly clear
Last edited by oldbloke on Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

bobsbeer

Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by bobsbeer » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:41 pm

You need to stop the yeast from any further activity, so you add 1/2 tsp potassium sorbete per 5lt and 1 crushed Campden tablet, (potassium or sodium metabisulfite) per 5lt. The pot sorb stops the yeast, but you also add the campden to stop off flavours developing after adding the pot sorb. So always add together. I usually mix these in a bit of wine in a jug taken while syphoning from the fermenter as you transfer. Mix back into the transferred wine.

Once you have transferred you need to knock out any residual co2 from the wine. I use a plastic rod made from an old plastic coat hanger on my cordless drill, but a good shake is all you need. 25lt of wine is a bit heavy for me to give a good shake so I opt for the easy method. :D You can buy specially made versions, but a plastic coat hanger does a good job for next to nothing. You can use a cordless drill or mains, but I suppose cordless is safer around liquids. This will take out all the residual CO2, and helps to clear the wine. Once you have done this you are ready to clear the wine. I prefer the 2 part finings, with Chitosan and Kieselsol. There are loads of different types, and everyone will swear by their method. I have never had a failure yet so if it aint bust don't fix it is my motto here. Once you have added the finings leave it to clear for at least a week, but don't worry if it is longer. I often leave mine up to three weeks clearing. Once it's clear it's ready to bottle. Rack off the sediment into another container and bottle as you would with beer.

Ask away if you have any questions.

Just to add, you will hear people telling you that you don't need to stop the wine or degas. That is true if you have left it to ferment for about a year, as the yeast will have long given up the ghost and sunk by then, but you are taking a chance of refermentation if you don't after leaving it for a few weeks. You can't taste the pot sorb or campden, so in my view it is essential for peace of mind.

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Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by oldbloke » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:03 pm

With capped's recipe I reckon it'd clear OK with no need for finings.

gobuchul

Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by gobuchul » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:11 pm

Thanks for all the info gents.

I will definitely be giving this a go in a few weeks.

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Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by Capped » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:37 pm

gobuchul wrote:Capped - I might give this a go.

I have never made wine before, can you give a bit more information?

You make 5 gallons with 10 litres of juice - is the difference made up of water?

What are the "usual cheap wine kit techniques"? Do you have a link to a decent website?

Many thanks
This is EXACTLY how I do it.....

Get a pan or pans big enough to hold enough water to dissolve the sugar. Keep the water to the absolute minimum required or you'll overshoot the temp of the stuff in the FV. Dissolve the 3kg sugar in the boiling water and leave to cool for an hour or so. Meanwhile tip the 4 litres of red grape juice and 6 litres of apple juice (Asda's own but any will do, just make sure none contain 'preservatives') into the FV. Add the sugar solution, then top up the FV with tap water, rinsing out the pans and juice containers with it. Temp will end up at the higher end but is fine. Then I stir in 2tsp citric acid,2tsp pectolase,2tsp nutrient and 2tsp Young's Super Wine Yeast Compound. Give it all a good stir, bung on the lid with airlock and leave it for a week. By this time there is usually NIL activity from the airlock but I give it an extra couple of days from that point just to be sure. Then,add 2tsp stabiliser, which is a mix of sulphite and potassium sorbate. Leave for a day. Then, run the wine from the FV via the tap into another FV, taking care to introduce as little air as possible. Once in the 2nd FV, add two-part finings as instructed on the pack and in 3 days it is star-bright. From there I run it into demijohns or if I have the time and inclination, straight to bottle. To me, the whole process is a chore but it's now as routine and as simple as making a cup of tea and the ultimate in simplicity. Suits me fine as like I say, the missus just loves it. O.G is around 1085 and ends up at 995 so by my calculations that's approx 12% alc. Don't tell the missus but I dilute it a little at the time of bottling. No links sorry, I made it all up myself.

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Re: Wine from superstore "juice from concentrate"?

Post by WalesAles » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:25 pm

Capped,
I`m going to tell MrsCapped that you are diluting Her Wine! [-X [-X

WA

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