Apples...

[crafty john]

The powdered wine tanning works but needs to be stirred daily which I don't like doing because of infection risk. You could make some strong tea and chuck that in.

[Jambo]

I juiced a few handfuls of crab apples for each 5 gallon batch - no idea if that's a decent quantity or not. Have also read one tbsp of strong tea per gallon works, but think it's supposed to be added before fermentation... does it matter?

[jmc]

Similarly I've added about 3-6% crab apples in my batches of cider made this year. They were juiced together so had same sod-met treatment. Maybe juice and pasteurise before adding?

For TC I've used 3-4 tea bags stewed for 15mins in a pint mug per 23L TC, again at start. Not sure how it would work now, but still fairly early doors for this years cider, so probably OK.

What's your acidity like with those Laxton Superb apples (originally from Bedfordshire!)

[dean_wales]

Fermentation is going great guns now...

The pH came out seemingly OK. Measured vaguely as I 3.4 with litmus strips. I was stoof there with the malic acid thinking it would be too high with the dessert apples. I did deliberately include a few of the under ripe apples from lower branches though.

I need some wine tannin powder for my wine so will try some of that. Think the time to find any crabs or cookers locally has passed now too.

I am getting a pH meter sorted this week for brewing gadetry and will use that to check the pH again.

Dean.

[steambrew]

As some one living in the westcountry and have made cider for 40 years I think you have done a wonderful job congratulations

[dean_wales]

Well well just got back from working away and both FVs are at 1.004. The state of the airlocks suggest it went great guns whilst I was away. Phew.

When taking the hydro samples I had a taste of the cider from beneath the foamy head...

THE GOOD
It tasted better than expected! It is quite bland,which is a good thing, not overly acidic etc. Ripe for some adjustments.

THE BAD
That eggy sulfur smell seems to have carried through to the cider. Any suggestions?

Wonder if the gravity will drop any further? Hope not. Might move it into cold storage soon if it doesn't.

Dean.

[dean_wales]

Although I would thoroughly recommend buying the book "Craft Cider Making" as I have found it really really useful...

...Most, if not all, of the book content is on his website for free - http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm

Good starting point for newbies.

Currently washing and de-labelling upteen million champagne bottles!!!

[fatbloke]

-----snip-----
Currently washing and de-labelling upteen million champagne bottles!!!

Soak in water for a few hours, sharp knife to scrape most of the paper (some labels will just slide off - depends on the glue).

Let dry and then a cloth and some "Preptone" which is a Xylene based solvent designed for removing decals etc of painted surfaces i.e. auto-detailing. It's available from your local Autosmart dealer and not suitable for enclosed spaces (sniffers delight).........

Then just rinse and sanitise as normal......

[dean_wales]

Cheers for the Preptone tip. To be honest most of the cheap sparkling wine bottles clean up OK with hot soapy water. The modern clear ones or more fancy champagne ones however often have some plasticy labels which will need a solvent.

It is amazing the weight difference between expensive champagne bottles and cheapo cava type ones...

My gran has just sent down eight carrier bags of cooking apples. So they are going to get pressed tommorow and added to the cider.

Hopefully the arrival of new juice, a little sugar, some tannin powder and loads of stirring will get the sulfur moving - the existing cider still absolutely bloody stinks of rotten eggs. The krausen is also really persistent and slimy which I did not expect.

Fingers crossed!

[fatbloke]

See with the sulphur thing, I'm presuming you're alluding to H2S/rotten egg type smell ?

Cos that's usually stressed yeast indicating a lack of thiamine/vitamin B1 and (with meads, not sure about cider) you'd usually add more nutrients (organic ones if passed the 1/3 sugar break) or boiled bread yeast (maybe a vit B1 tablet) and aerate the hell out of it to try and lift the smell/chem out of it. Leaving it too long can cause the formation of mercaptans. If that were to happen the batch is shot! Only fit for the drain......

Hopefully that's not the case (I'm enough of a tight wad to hate waste.....even with others batches).......

[dean_wales]

Yer I dont want to leave it any longer (it had a week of borrowed time as many said it would just pass).

I originally only added 1tsp of nutrient to each 6 gallons of juice, which I now think was not enough. Misread the stupid Young's instructions on the pot as they had peeled. This is what I am using:



When I added the extra cookers juice, tannin and some sugar I am going up the nutrient levels to about 1tsp per gallon. Fingers crossed!!

My understanding is that if that doesnt work I need to add some copper to neutralise the sulfur. I may chuck a small piece of sanitized copper pipe in the FV whilst I rack and add the juice - what do you reckon?

Also should I remove or keep the yeast cake when I rack and add the juice? I am thinking of chucking it.

Dean.

[fatbloke]

That stuff is almost pure DAP, so if you've passed the 1/3rd sugar break the yeast won't likely take it up but (especially as its cider/a below 10% ABV beverage) its available to spoilage organisms....... which is why the best later stage nutrient (and conveniently isnt available - well I haven't found any) is FermaidO. So yeast hulls or boiled bread yeast and maybe a vit B1 tablet should do the trick.......

[dean_wales]

That stuff is almost pure DAP, so if you've passed the 1/3rd sugar break the yeast won't likely take it up but (especially as its cider/a below 10% ABV beverage) its available to spoilage organisms....... which is why the best later stage nutrient (and conveniently isnt available - well I haven't found any) is FermaidO. So yeast hulls or boiled bread yeast and maybe a vit B1 tablet should do the trick.......

What about my situation where it has fermented out to dryness but I am now about to add some new sugar and juice to the mix?

Maybe the nutrient and some boiled bakers yeast?

Dean.

[dean_wales]

Right, just milled and pressed half the cookers and got six gallons of juice. It is a higher gravity than the eaters surprisingly at 1.053 which is good. It is quite acid though - although you can almost eat them / drink it my pH meter reckons its at 2.3 which I find hard to believe. Its not calibrated yet though so will check with litmus tommorow.

Does a 10 gallon to 5 gallon ratio of eaters to cookers sound OK? Gonna work out how to blend tommorow. Tonight they get Camden and pectolase.

Need another FV I reckon.

Dean.

[dean_wales]

Last night I racked the 'egg cider' off the sludge, aerated/degassed well, blended with the fresh batch of juice, added a generous 1tsp of nutrient per gallon and fitted airlocks.

I now have three FV's of cider each filled with 5 or 6 gallons. I am going to give it until mid week next week to ferment further and see if it can drive off the sulfur. If not I will have to start work with copper or something else to shift the odour.

Such a shame as taste testing the trial jar samples there is a really nice balanced cider (needs more tannin) there, its just buried under a wretch-gag inducing rotten egg flavour/aroma which lingers in the nose and mouth for hours after!

In fact I may sling a small piece of copper on fishing line into one FV this evening and give it a few days and then compare to the other two?

Dean.