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Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

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Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby Peatbogbrewer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:43 pm

So I'm going to brew a wit, kind of like the goose island 312 american wit, thats no coriander, orange peel etc, but hopped with cascade late in the boil.
Ive looked at recipes and seem to see all sorts of stuff going on, particularly about flaked or raw wheat. So whats other people used with success? Pale or pilsner malt? wheat malt, flaked wheat or raw wheat?

Cheers

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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby IPA » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:58 pm

Peatbogbrewer wrote:So I'm going to brew a wit, kind of like the goose island 312 american wit, thats no coriander, orange peel etc, but hopped with cascade late in the boil.
Ive looked at recipes and seem to see all sorts of stuff going on, particularly about flaked or raw wheat. So whats other people used with success? Pale or pilsner malt? wheat malt, flaked wheat or raw wheat?

Cheers

P


Depending on what colour you want use either pilsner or pale. Wheat malt will guarantee you don't get a stuck mash. Flaked malt is easier than trying to crush raw wheat. The choice is yours. I use a fifty fifty mix of barley and wheat with a small percentage of flaked oats. I you are hell bent on making a cloudy hop soup bung in a table spoon of plain flour. Or better still use coriander orange peel and cardamom for an authentic Wit
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby Peatbogbrewer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:56 pm

IPA wrote:
Peatbogbrewer wrote:So I'm going to brew a wit, kind of like the goose island 312 american wit, thats no coriander, orange peel etc, but hopped with cascade late in the boil.
Ive looked at recipes and seem to see all sorts of stuff going on, particularly about flaked or raw wheat. So whats other people used with success? Pale or pilsner malt? wheat malt, flaked wheat or raw wheat?

Cheers

P


Depending on what colour you want use either pilsner or pale. Wheat malt will guarantee you don't get a stuck mash. Flaked malt is easier than trying to crush raw wheat. The choice is yours. I use a fifty fifty mix of barley and wheat with a small percentage of flaked oats. I you are hell bent on making a cloudy hop soup bung in a table spoon of plain flour. Or better still use coriander orange peel and cardamom for an authentic Wit


Thanks IPA. I was going to get a recipe made up online, so i'd have hoped they would crush raw wheat too. I do BIAB so i could go with the flaked/raw wheat and a few rice hulls to avoid a stuck mash? I like the sound of your recipe, what yeast have you used? As for authentic, i like the authentic flavours but this is for my wife too and she loves 312.
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby Barley Water » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:20 pm

I don't know that I would call 312 a Wit, likely more of an American Wheat ale. Also, the notion that you can't get a stuck mash with malted wheat is in my opinion incorrect; been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Of course, I was doing a Bavarian heffeweizen with 70% malted wheat but yeah, it stuck like hell. I have about 1/2 a pound of rice hulls at home sitting in reserve just in case I have a problem with a mash, I have also stuck a mash with 20% ground corn for whatever that is worth. If you look at malted wheat will will notice there is no husk on the grain, that is why the stuff can cause problems at higher %'s. Having said that, most American wheat ales are about 50% wheat and that may be enough malted barley to avoid problems most of the time, YMMV. Oh and by the way, flaked grains can give you problems also although most don't use them in high enough percentages to cause issues. Carry on lads, this stuff is big fun. :D
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby IPA » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:53 am

"I like the sound of your recipe, what yeast have you used"

I use the yeast recovered from a bottle of "Blanche de Namur" but any genuine Wit yeast will work.
This is my recipe for 25 litres.
2.5 kg lager malt
1 kg pale wheat malt
2 kg flaked wheat
200 gr flaked oats

Golding hops to 20 IBU 90 mins boil

25 gr ground coriander 25 gr ground bitter orange peel 14 gr split cardamom last ten minutes of boil.

Absolutely delicious!
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby Peatbogbrewer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:21 pm

Ah so its an american wheat? Goose island website says malts are 2 row and torrified wheat. So maybe looking at maybe 25 wheat malt/25 torrified or flaked/50 pale malt and some cascade type hops. I be the yeast they use isn't a wit.

IPA, do you think your delicious wit recipe would be good for some late hops or would it just confuse the matter? i like the sound of the oats and flaked wheat.....
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby IPA » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:19 am

Peatbogbrewer wrote:Ah so its an american wheat? Goose island website says malts are 2 row and torrified wheat. So maybe looking at maybe 25 wheat malt/25 torrified or flaked/50 pale malt and some cascade type hops. I be the yeast they use isn't a wit.

IPA, do you think your delicious wit recipe would be good for some late hops or would it just confuse the matter? i like the sound of the oats and flaked wheat.....


Wit should not have an aroma of hops. The aroma comes from the spice additions. Americans at the moment ( I am sure they will grow out of it ) are obsessed with hop aroma and bitterness and seem to have forgotten that the building block of beer is malt. By all means omit the spices and have a late,or several, hop additions but what you will end up with will not be a Wit. Try my recipe and I am sure you will not be disappointed plus it is a big hit with the ladies :)
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby k1100t » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:57 am

I was going to brew a Wit a few years back, never quite got round to it. I asked an ex-pro brewer on Twitter and he said, 50% lager malt, 25% wheat, 20% torrified wheat, 5% oats. One of his partners in crime, then said they no longer used the oats and it was more 60% pilsner and 40% malted wheat.

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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby Jocky » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:21 pm

IPA wrote:
Peatbogbrewer wrote:So I'm going to brew a wit, kind of like the goose island 312 american wit, thats no coriander, orange peel etc, but hopped with cascade late in the boil.
Ive looked at recipes and seem to see all sorts of stuff going on, particularly about flaked or raw wheat. So whats other people used with success? Pale or pilsner malt? wheat malt, flaked wheat or raw wheat?

Cheers

P


Depending on what colour you want use either pilsner or pale. Wheat malt will guarantee you don't get a stuck mash. Flaked malt is easier than trying to crush raw wheat. The choice is yours. I use a fifty fifty mix of barley and wheat with a small percentage of flaked oats. I you are hell bent on making a cloudy hop soup bung in a table spoon of plain flour. Or better still use coriander orange peel and cardamom for an authentic Wit


I don't agree that wheat malt avoids a stuck mash.

The lack of any husk on wheat malt means it's quite easy to get a stuck mash compared to barley. The fact that it has to be ground into smaller pieces doesn't help either.

Add some oat husks in and take your time lautering though and you'll be fine though.
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby Barley Water » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:25 pm

I was in my local home brew store getting ingredients for my next project which will be a Munich Helles. While there, the owner was telling me that he had obtained a bunch of Lemmon Drop hops which I have never used. Being essentially weak and highly impressionable, I, on a whim, purchased some just to screw around with them. My plan here is to make an American wheat ale, about 20 or so IBU's (maybe even a little less) with a nice hit of those hops late (I'd likely use Magnum for bittering to keep it smooth). I was thinking maybe about 50% malted wheat, say 40% US two row and a bit of Munich or Vienna plus maybe just a bit of really light crystal. I don't want the beer to be bone dry but I do want the wheat flavor to come through as well as whatever the Lemmon Drop hops can do (some lemon and whatever else you get with that hop). Do you think that swapping out say 10% of the malted wheat for some raw wheat would enhance the "wheatiness" of the beer (I'd just run the raw stuff through my spice mill and throw it into the mash since wheat gelitanizes at the same temperature as the rest of the mash)? I tried a wheat IPA a couple of years ago but learned that really heavy hopping will completely cover up the wheat flavor (or flavour) and I haven't explored further. As always, any advice is appreciated so I can avoid doing something really dumb (well, it wouldn't be the first time). :D
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Fermenting: APA
Next up: German Helles
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby alexlark » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:56 am

Brulosophy just did a good Lemondrop review: http://brulosophy.com/2017/06/01/the-hop-chronicles-lemondrop/
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby Peatbogbrewer » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:22 pm

Barley Water wrote:I was in my local home brew store getting ingredients for my next project which will be a Munich Helles. While there, the owner was telling me that he had obtained a bunch of Lemmon Drop hops which I have never used. Being essentially weak and highly impressionable, I, on a whim, purchased some just to screw around with them. My plan here is to make an American wheat ale, about 20 or so IBU's (maybe even a little less) with a nice hit of those hops late (I'd likely use Magnum for bittering to keep it smooth). I was thinking maybe about 50% malted wheat, say 40% US two row and a bit of Munich or Vienna plus maybe just a bit of really light crystal. I don't want the beer to be bone dry but I do want the wheat flavor to come through as well as whatever the Lemmon Drop hops can do (some lemon and whatever else you get with that hop). Do you think that swapping out say 10% of the malted wheat for some raw wheat would enhance the "wheatiness" of the beer (I'd just run the raw stuff through my spice mill and throw it into the mash since wheat gelitanizes at the same temperature as the rest of the mash)? I tried a wheat IPA a couple of years ago but learned that really heavy hopping will completely cover up the wheat flavor (or flavour) and I haven't explored further. As always, any advice is appreciated so I can avoid doing something really dumb (well, it wouldn't be the first time). :D


Looks good Barley and the Lemon Drop hops sound just the job. Ive see some recipes for wheat ale that include a big whack of torrified wheat, but I'm unsure to emulate this. I think vienna would be more subtle but still give some extra depth to the malt. I know what you mean with the addition of raw wheat, you want the mouth feel of a wit but in a wheat ale. i think this is doable and I'm going to consider this too. Yes i agree with a more subdued hop usage so as not mask the malt, although i did have a hoppy hefeweizen which was very nice, but i suppose the esters and phenol are quite strong and can take it.

I think i might have a bash at your recipe Barley. What yeast are you considering?

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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby Barley Water » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:33 pm

Well, that is a good question. My initial thought was to just use the dry Chico strain because it's easy, I have had good results and it is fairly neutral. Never one to leave well enough alone however I did some reading and saw some good things about the American Wheat beer strain as well as some information about using a Kolsch strain. I guess I need to figure out what other beers I want to make because I could see using the second generation of that Kolsch strain to actually make some Kolsch (in over 30 years doing this hobby I have never made that style, go figure?). Thing is, I also want to start lager production and as we all know, that tends to tie up cold space and equipment. My problem is that I tend to be somewhat impulsive and just a little fickle (just a beer slut I guess).
Drinking:Saison (in bottles), Belgian Dubbel (in bottles), Oud Bruin (in bottles), Olde Ale (in bottles),
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munch Dunkel, CAP, Preprohibition Porter, Milk Stout
Conditioning: English Summer Ale, Irish Red Ale
Fermenting: APA
Next up: German Helles
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby IPA » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:33 am

Barley Water wrote:Well, that is a good question. My initial thought was to just use the dry Chico strain because it's easy, I have had good results and it is fairly neutral. Never one to leave well enough alone however I did some reading and saw some good things about the American Wheat beer strain as well as some information about using a Kolsch strain. I guess I need to figure out what other beers I want to make because I could see using the second generation of that Kolsch strain to actually make some Kolsch (in over 30 years doing this hobby I have never made that style, go figure?). Thing is, I also want to start lager production and as we all know, that tends to tie up cold space and equipment. My problem is that I tend to be somewhat impulsive and just a little fickle (just a beer slut I guess).


Just make the Kolsch. I doubt that anyone will question you if you tell them it's lager.
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Re: Wit flaked or raw wheat confusion

Postby jaroporter » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:28 am

IPA wrote:Just make the Kolsch. I doubt that anyone will question you if you tell them it's lager.


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