RON THROWS US A GEM: 1867 INDIA PORTER!

[Mckelvie20]

Yeah seems like the india version was just made more hoppy because i would keep longer which ofcourse makes absolute sense.

[Barley Water]

I just went through the new IPA book written by the head brewer at Stone (yeah, I know he uses Chinook but he seems knowlegable so I'll cut him some slack). Anyway, according to him back in the 1800's they used to age and ship beers in oak (and it took about 6 months to get beer to India in those days). If that was true of IPA's I'm sure it was also the case with the Porters shipped there at that time. Anyhow although initally bitter, anytime you age a beer that long the bitterness will be much reduced by the time it is consumed. Also, there is no way that brett was not active in those barrels so I would expect the beer to be highly attenuated with noticable brett character and as I mentioned reduced bitterness. Are you guys planning to try and duplicate the effect of aging and presence of brett in your "throw back" brew?

[Bierhaus]

The thing that looks really interesting about this recipe is the inclusion of crystal malt. Especially 60L crystal. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that crystal malts didn't show up in porter brewing until the early 20th century. Regardless, I brewed Ron's 1859 East India Porter and even for being so young (in the keg), it tastes really nice. I won't add brett to it, but I will be dry hopping it with EKG sometime in the spring before serving.

http://perfectpint.blogspot.com/2012/11 ... orter.html

[seymour]

The thing that looks really interesting about this recipe is the inclusion of crystal malt. Especially 60L crystal. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that crystal malts didn't show up in porter brewing until the early 20th century. Regardless, I brewed Ron's 1859 East India Porter and even for being so young (in the keg), it tastes really nice. I won't add brett to it, but I will be dry hopping it with EKG sometime in the spring before serving.

http://perfectpint.blogspot.com/2012/11 ... orter.html

Thanks for sharing! Somehow I missed that one. Looks great too.

[SamT]

The Kernel have been doing 'Export India Porter' for a good while now.

'Tis rather gorgeous ...

[SamT]

I just went through the new IPA book written by the head brewer at Stone (yeah, I know he uses Chinook but he seems knowlegable so I'll cut him some slack). Anyway, according to him back in the 1800's they used to age and ship beers in oak (and it took about 6 months to get beer to India in those days). If that was true of IPA's I'm sure it was also the case with the Porters shipped there at that time. Anyhow although initally bitter, anytime you age a beer that long the bitterness will be much reduced by the time it is consumed. Also, there is no way that brett was not active in those barrels so I would expect the beer to be highly attenuated with noticable brett character and as I mentioned reduced bitterness. Are you guys planning to try and duplicate the effect of aging and presence of brett in your "throw back" brew?

There was some interesting points raised on one of the UK beer blogs pertaining to Oak Barrels for beer - I believe they were often lined with pitch to keep the beer away from the wood ....

[patto1ro]

[There was some interesting points raised on one of the UK beer blogs pertaining to Oak Barrels for beer - I believe they were often lined with pitch to keep the beer away from the wood ....

British barrels weren't usally lined. Especially not in the 19th century.

[SamT]

[There was some interesting points raised on one of the UK beer blogs pertaining to Oak Barrels for beer - I believe they were often lined with pitch to keep the beer away from the wood ....

British barrels weren't usally lined. Especially not in the 19th century.

Fair enough!

(Thought it was your blog or maybe Boak & Bailey - but I defer to you one this one)

[patto1ro]

[There was some interesting points raised on one of the UK beer blogs pertaining to Oak Barrels for beer - I believe they were often lined with pitch to keep the beer away from the wood ....

British barrels weren't usally lined. Especially not in the 19th century.

Fair enough!

(Thought it was your blog or maybe Boak & Bailey - but I defer to you one this one)

It's a really tricky subject. Because there aren't sources that say flat out: we don't line our casks.

What you get is circumstantial evidence, such as the selection of certain types of oak for barrels, ones that imparted little flavour. Or the way they seasoned new casks by filling them with running Porter or Stout the first few times so the wood would be seaoned with beer and any wood taint would be in a beer where it wouldn't be so noticeable. And there are the descriptions of brewery equipment in brewing manuals. They go through every possible piece of equipment connected with brewing. But no mention of pitching machines, which you need to pitch casks. Old manuals do have instruction on how to clean casks and rid them of off-flavours, however. So there's a lot of stuff about cask care, without a mention of pitching. I infer from that, they didn't do it.

[TC2642]

What you get is circumstantial evidence, such as the selection of certain types of oak for barrels, ones that imparted little flavour. Or the way they seasoned new casks by filling them with running Porter or Stout the first few times so the wood would be seaoned with beer and any wood taint would be in a beer where it wouldn't be so noticeable. And there are the descriptions of brewery equipment in brewing manuals. They go through every possible piece of equipment connected with brewing. But no mention of pitching machines, which you need to pitch casks. Old manuals do have instruction on how to clean casks and rid them of off-flavours, however. So there's a lot of stuff about cask care, without a mention of pitching. I infer from that, they didn't do it.

Surely that would suggest some wild yeast would also get into the beer as well, Brett possibly?

[patto1ro]

What you get is circumstantial evidence, such as the selection of certain types of oak for barrels, ones that imparted little flavour. Or the way they seasoned new casks by filling them with running Porter or Stout the first few times so the wood would be seaoned with beer and any wood taint would be in a beer where it wouldn't be so noticeable. And there are the descriptions of brewery equipment in brewing manuals. They go through every possible piece of equipment connected with brewing. But no mention of pitching machines, which you need to pitch casks. Old manuals do have instruction on how to clean casks and rid them of off-flavours, however. So there's a lot of stuff about cask care, without a mention of pitching. I infer from that, they didn't do it.

Surely that would suggest some wild yeast would also get into the beer as well, Brett possibly?

Yes, there would probably have been brettanomyces around most breweries and their casks. And in a beer like India Porter, which was kept in wood for a long time, it would probably have had some impact on the flavour. But I wouldn't go to over the top with it. And you'd want the right type of brettanomyces, clausenii.

[barney]

I am having a crack at this today, well something similar based on this recipe. I have made a couple of assumptions though, no doubt erroneous.
Pale ale malt in the 1800's was not as pale as today's malts and that the brown malt made in my oven would not have the characteristic "kilned over burning wood Aroma or flavour". In light of theses musings I have adjusted the recipe as follows.

#62 ExPorter

4KG Mild ale malt
1kg Pale Crystal
1kg Home Roasted Brown
250g Black Malt
75g Beech Smoked malt

They may just bring the beer closer to the original brew.

[patto1ro]

I am having a crack at this today, well something similar based on this recipe. I have made a couple of assumptions though, no doubt erroneous.
Pale ale malt in the 1800's was not as pale as today's malts and that the brown malt made in my oven would not have the characteristic "kilned over burning wood Aroma or flavour". In light of theses musings I have adjusted the recipe as follows.

#62 ExPorter

4KG Mild ale malt
1kg Pale Crystal
1kg Home Roasted Brown
250g Black Malt
75g Beech Smoked malt

They may just bring the beer closer to the original brew.

Using mild malt is a good idea. While they could kiln pale malt a pretty light colour, that was the best quality stuff and was used in pale ales. The second quality of pale malt ended up in things like Porter and Mild.

I wouldn't used beech smoked malt. Brown malt was kilned with hornbeam mostly in the 1860's, a wood that burns hot and produces very little smoke. People wh have used hornbeam say that it doesn't really give the malt any noticeable smoke flavour.

[barney]

Thank you for the quick response patto1ro, points noted. Mash on.

[seymour]

Man, oh man, I can't wait to hear how it turns out. Best of luck! Which yeast strain are you using?