1st lager - oh Vienna!

[pads72]

I've just listened to the Brewing Network's podcast on Vienna Lager, and decided to try and brew this as my 1st AG lager, based on Jamil Zainasheff's recipe. Not put it through my software yet to get precise weights, but this is what I'm thinking at the moment for a 23L batch. Any suggestions and tips for a lager virgin more than welcome!

Vienna lager style notes:
OG 1.46-1.052
FG 1.010-1.014
IBU 18-30
SRM 10-16
ABV 4.5%-5.5%

Aiming for something malt forward, subtle hop with a rich taste and dry finish.

Grain bill:
Vienna Malt 45%
Pilsner Malt 27.5%
Munich Malt 27.5%
Mash at 65 degC for 90 min.

Boil 90 min.
For hops they recommended Hallertauer, but I've got loads of Pacifica (aka Pacific Hallertau) so I'm gonna use those.

Hop schedule:
Pacifica 40g at 60mins from end
Pacifica 15g at 10 mins from end

Crash cool wort to 10 degC for pitching
Yeast: WLP 838 Southern German Lager or SafLager S23 (I have one packet of this in stock)

Fermentation:
Into temp controlled fridge to ferment in primary at 9 degC and keep it there for minimum of 3 weeks. Then crash cool as low as possible and bottle and lager for 6-8 weeks.

As you can see, I'm trying to keep it simple! Thoughts?

[Barley Water]

Your formulation will work just fine. I make one every year and I generally go for almost 100% Vienna malt with a bit of Melonoidin malt thrown in because I'm looking for malty. Also, if I remember right I correct the color a little with some dehusked carafa but you certainly don't need to. I also decoct but for a first lager I would concerntrate on technique and worry about getting cute later. It's all about running a good fermentation, you need a very big yeast starter otherwise you risk under-attenuation and other related under pitching issues. Once you get lagers working all your beer will turn out better because you will have learned alot about yeast handling and brewing really clean beer. Good luck and above all, have fun.

[mozza]

Looks great if you decide to use s-23 ferment at 12-15 degrees. 9 I think is the bare minimum for that particular strain and I've read on here people get more success fermenting towards 15 degrees. Personally I have used it successfully at about 12 degrees

[pads72]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I make one every year and I generally go for almost 100% Vienna malt with a bit of Melonoidin malt thrown in because I'm looking for malty.

I wondered about the Melonoidin, but not sure if I'll need it. What advantages does it bring?

How big a yeast starter should I be going for? I wonder if I should pitch 2 packets of S-23?

[Barley Water]

I use it because it makes the beer have more malt flavor. Think of it as buying a decoction; it's what many do who don't want to go to the trouble (I generally do both when making German beers). It will however increase the color of the beer a little although I generally only use about 4 ounces in a 5 gallon batch. I don't have any experience with dry lager yeast but if using a packet or tube I do at least at 3 quart starter and pour off the liquid before pitching (and that's for normal O.G. beers). If I was making something big I generally make a small beer first and do a bit of "yeast ranching" off the first beer. The quickest way to mess up making a lager is to under-pitch and I say that from extensive experience screwing up. What will happen is that the beer will be under-attenuated and perhaps also have excess fermentation by-products because you are essentially stressing the yeast. Making lagers is all about fermentation, get the wort cold, pitch enough yeast and add oxygen when pitching. Yeast are like women; treat them right and they will take care of you, treat them wrong and they will screw you well and truely (and I don't mean in a good way).

[AnthonyD]

I did a Vienna late last year... details here if they help?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63349

[pads72]

I eventually got round to this one last night, adding some melanoidin malt as suggested by Barley Water, thanks.

Up to mash temp - New shiney temp gauge in place and working well



Hot break


40g Pacifica in


Yeast disaster! I'd made a starter with the White Labs Southern German Lager, and had stuck it in the temp controlled fridge. For some reason, I decided to unplug the STC1000 and just use the fridge to chill - opened up and the whole thing had frozen solid! Doh!

Chilling the wort down to 10 deg was a challenge, so I got it as far as 18 deg, and transferred to FV to stick in temp controlled fridge.

So now I have an unpitched wort chilling in the fridge and a carboy of frozen yeast starter thawing out! Will have to pitch yeast tonight, 18 hours after chilling the wort began! Hope any infections stay away!

[Barley Water]

Am I reading this right? Did you freeze your starter by mistake and are thawing it out to pitch? I think what I would do in a situation like that is get some packages of dry lager yeast and pitch that (of course a 10 minute drive for me will get me to the LHBS, maybe your not that lucky). Anyhow as they say s@#t happens, hope it works out ok.

[pads72]

Yep BW you read it right! I thought after getting the yeast starter going, I'd chill it down to get the yeast to drop out. Why didn't I just use the STC-1000 to bring it down to 10 degrees FFS?

I didn't even realise my fridge would go so low and freeze the whole bloody thing!

I've pitched it anyway, and some dried lager yeast for good measure.

[pads72]

Quick update, despite the yeast disaster described above, it has been fermenting at 9 degC for nearly 3 weeks now. I took a sample yesterday and it was down to 1.013, and tasting good, distinctly lager-like!

I think I'm going to go with the advice on the Jamil podcast and not have a diaceytl rest. They suggested that a 3 week, cold fermentation wouldn't require one, and I wasn't getting any off-flavours from the sample. I'll bottle tomorrow night and lager for another 6 weeks.

[pads72]

Couldn't resist tasting a bottle last night, its been lagering at 3 deg C for 3 weeks, clear as a bell and tastes really good - clean crisp lager with a bit of maltiness, balanced hops, well pleased, except for one thing!

Despite priming 1tsp per bottle, it's flat as a pancake!
Any advice? Sit it out and keep lagering like this or raise the temp or agitate the bottles?

[grmski]

I love a Vienna lager it's a great style so I've been reading you posts with interest. You seem to have come up with a good beer bar the carbonation level and I suspect that because you've primed it and then kept it at 3oc the yeast are dormant. I'd suspect that the sugar hasn't been consumed yet because of this so I'd take the bottles out and keep them at room temp for a week so the yeast can wake up and consume the sugar and gas those bottles up for you.

Cheers,
Grmski

[pads72]

Thanks Grmski, took your advice and the beer has primed up a treat. Now chilled back down and nearing ready for drinking!
I'm off to a homebrew comp on Sunday, and will be taking a couple of these beauts along. Will let you know how it goes.

[pads72]

Winner of 'best lager' at the homebrew competition, pretty pleased.

[far9410]

Winner of 'best lager' at the homebrew competition, pretty pleased.