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SmartPID - smart temperature controller

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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Mr Uppity » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:43 am

I assume you bought the BM clone in the For Sale Section, if so judging by the photographs the thermowell is situated on the outside of the malt tube.

With a BM system the temp probe is usually mounted within the confines of the malt tube, well away from the element. Any temperature sensors near elements can give inaccurate readings when the element is on. If it were me I would trial a few experiments to see if there is a significant difference between the thermowell reading and say with the malt tube in place with a reading at the centre of the pot.

What may happen, your mash temps will be at a lower temp than you think during the Mash.

During the boil, the probe might read 100c well before the rest of the wort has caught up, if you intend to use the SmartPid controller, depending on setting it might/can/may reduce the power to the element once 100c has been reached, meaning a rolling boil is not achieved.

It may or may not be an issue but worth testing non the less.
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Haydnexport » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:03 am

thanks for explaining , hopefully it shouldn't be an issue with the pump recirculating during heating strike and mash , but i can see it potentially being an issue with the boil
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Mr Uppity » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:30 am

You might find the temperature increases rapidly when the element is on, this is a sign that things might not be as they seem.

If there is an issue just mount a suitable low profile (think malt tube base restriction) within the confines of the malt tube. At least with the SmartPid you have a couple of types of sensor unit to choose from.

Good luck with the rest of the build.
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Haydnexport » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:38 am

you mean multiple sensors or different types ? as i thought the smartpid was ntc only?
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Mr Uppity » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:43 am

NTC (make sure you know the Beta value) or ds18b20 are excepted by the Smart PID. For your system one will be enough unless you are curious of reading to temperatures. Test what you have first though.
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Haydnexport » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:55 am

hmm its the brew builder 60mm ntc probe and i dont know what the beta value is :shock: . Ive just ordered the neutrics connectors so i should have this up and running fairly soon :)
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Fil » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:16 pm

https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch.html - cracking lil buggers, the design fails on no earth terminals and shitty cable grips but a real box and a cable connector is a solution to that ironically a box can cost more than the unit,, then either hack it to do what you want- lots of howto-s about, or use the out of the box firmware and free app ewlink.

Theoretically the ds18b20 sensor option should allow you to daisychain more sensors than you can use on a single connection bus (gpio data pin), if the fiermware works with this capacity?? @DAVIDE ??

http://community.mydevices.com/t/yayyyy ... meters/108
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Haydnexport » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:50 pm

cheers fil, ive bought 2 of them wifi things , you know just in case :lol:
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Haydnexport » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:32 pm

I have this sensor , 60mm ntc, but it has 3 wires, do they need to be in a certain order in a certain place for the smart pid im just wiring it all together now, i also have a mini xlr , that im going to connect the temp sensor to later to make things easier on me, is there any restrictions on cable length / diameter for the wires from xlr to pid?

https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/temperature-probes.html

Edit:theres something defo wrong with the probe or connection as its showing -58c

Double edit: This is going on hold now until i can get a recommendation on a sensor that will work with this that has a preferable 60 -100mm length and a 1/2 bsp thread...
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Fil » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:50 pm

ds18b20 probes should work as well as with your other issue.. afaik they are comparable in accuracy with the favoured pt100 types..

fwiw i picked up 5 x with 90cm leads off amazon for about £2 each https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1 take about 4-5 days to arrive ebay/china is cheaper..

a compression/grommet fitting something like this could be used to isnsert int a pot wall? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustable-Sl ... SwLpdW86Uk or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/316-STAINLESS ... SwD0lUfSZi with a reducing bush?

or if real stainless steel a cable gland could be repurposed ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silver-Tone-Stainless-Steel-PG7-3-0-6-5mm-Waterproof-Cable-Gland-UK-Seller-/272253208657?hash=item3f638e4851:g:FI8AAOSwzchXRJjf
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=stainless+steel+grommet&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xstainless+steel+cabel+gland.TRS0&_nkw=stainless+steel+cabel+gland&_sacat=0
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(
Fil
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Location: Cowley, Oxford

Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Haydnexport » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:20 am

thanks again fil , i'm almost embarrassed that i didnt think of the cable gland to hold it in the pot, i have them on every stc box ive made holding them in them :oops: :oops: Ive ordered the amazon ds18b20 ones they should arrive tomorrow. 8)
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Haydnexport » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:03 pm

Holy crap , ive got this setup finally with an old probe from one of these things

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-LCD-T ... Swol5Yv4le

And its amazing, ive even got the smartphone app working and can see real time data and even alter things, just need my bm clone to be delivered now and im all set ! 8)
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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby arzaman » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:03 am

Mr Uppity wrote:
During the boil, the probe might read 100c well before the rest of the wort has caught up, if you intend to use the SmartPid controller, depending on setting it might/can/may reduce the power to the element once 100c has been reached, meaning a rolling boil is not achieved.

It may or may not be an issue but worth testing non the less.


martpid has quite sophisticated option to mange temperature probe position either inside the vessel or outside in the recirculating circuit . Depending on this all the pump management logic and temperature reading is affected. In the install & config manual in the appendix there is a table that explains all status and details

About boiling with smartPID you can set you boiling point at a desired temperature (also below 100c) and this is the trigger for the boiling count down timer
When temperature reach the boiling point temperature is not more controlled by PID and you can modulate and throttle the power from 0 -100% with pwm control

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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby arzaman » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:09 am

[quote="Fil"
Theoretically the ds18b20 sensor option should allow you to daisychain more sensors than you can use on a single connection bus (gpio data pin), if the fiermware works with this capacity?? @DAVIDE ??

[/quote]
Smartpid supports both NTC and DS18B20 sensor..you can assign independently to each channel
for NTC you can also adjust the Beta factor

yes one wire bus support daisychain ...but smartpid logic is based on two thermo regulated independent process...each process read temperature from one port/sensor, apply the service logic (heating, cooling..) and provide the output (SSR, DC, Relay) so not possible to have more than tw sensors and for DS18B20 eache port has its own address

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Re: SmartPID - smart temperature controller

Postby Haydnexport » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:43 am

hi Davide , is it possible to program the pump to cycle like the braumeister during the mash?
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