King Keg USA

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ECW

King Keg USA

Post by ECW » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:21 pm

Hi,

I'm trying to get hold of something like a king keg over here in the USA, but it appears they can't be had for love nor money. My LHBS manager looked them up on the internet and then said "well, you learn something new every day." :D You can't move for cornies in the HBS, by the way! :wink:

Does anyone have any idea where I might get a king keg-like barrel from to make some "cask conditioned" beer over here?

Cheers,

Ed

chris_reboot

Re: King Keg USA

Post by chris_reboot » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:34 pm

depending on price, go with cornies instead as they are US made anyway (so I believe) so KK's are going to be a rarity as they are made here in blighty.

if you really want one, try ebay with someone who'll do international shipping.

ECW

Re: King Keg USA

Post by ECW » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:06 pm

I'm beginning to think cornis might be the solution. I want to avoid force carbonation,though, so I'll have to check how low the pressure can be turned down. There are a few threads here suggesting it can be done, anyone have any details of pressures etc.?

Cheers,

Ed

Graham

Re: King Keg USA

Post by Graham » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:55 pm

ECW wrote:Hi,
I'm trying to get hold of something like a king keg over here in the USA, but it appears they can't be had for love nor money. My LHBS manager looked them up on the internet and then said "well, you learn something new every day." :D You can't move for cornies in the HBS, by the way! :wink:
Ed
Talk to these people and see if they have a U.S distributor:
http://www.weltonhurst.co.uk/

They make their own brand of cask, but they also do the moulding everybody else's brand too.

Make sure you ask about the bottom-tap version though. With a top-tap version you'd be no better off than using a cornie.

ECW

Re: King Keg USA

Post by ECW » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:19 pm

And what lovely helpful people they are! They didn't know offhand whether they had a distributor near me, but the are looking into it. Many thanks for the steer, Graham.

Graham

Re: King Keg USA

Post by Graham » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:39 pm

Glad to be of service :D

mysterio

Re: King Keg USA

Post by mysterio » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:31 pm

Chris-x1 wrote:They're a nice idea (at least the bottom tap kegs are) but you couldn't sell them in US they're such poor quality. It's only in the UK that people a will put up with that sort of crap.
=D>

ECW

Re: King Keg USA

Post by ECW » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:36 pm

Chris-x1 wrote:They're a nice idea (at least the bottom tap kegs are) but you couldn't sell them in US they're such poor quality. It's only in the UK that people a will put up with that sort of crap.
Chris,
Thanks for the advice, and please don't think I'm ignoring it, I'm just doing the old mechanic's routine of trying the simplest, cheapest solution first. I'm sure I shan't be able to resist the shine of the cornie for long... :lol: And then I'll have to compare the results (repeating the experiment several times for accuracy of course :beer: ) and let you all know what I think.

chris_reboot

Re: King Keg USA

Post by chris_reboot » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:37 pm

with respect Chris, some of what you say doesn't sit quite right for me.

although I don't have cornies (may if I'm a good boy this year when Santa comes ;)), I do have 6 plastic kegs, 4 of which are KK Top taps (5 gallons).

Yes, there are pros and cons, but in terms of cracking the lids open, you only need do this when you come to clean out when the beer is all gone!
Most of my brews have been pressured enough to dispense all or almost all the beer with the gas produced in secondary fermentation alone. If extra gas is added, I use an S-30 gas bottle. This lasts ages for me, and costs about a fiver to refill (swap really) with my LHBS. Cost about £16 initially for the first one (so there's a deposit there). alternative gas fittings allow for the small co2 bulbs instead if they're more easily available to you.

cost wise, I bought one brand new for £40-something from LHBS, one for £30 2nd hand from ebay, and recently 2@ £2.20 plus £8 p+p from ebay. I had to renew some parts, so an extra £5 ensured new rubber washers and floats. So approx £90 spent for 4 kegs all in all. Yes, cornies come out about the same cost 2nd hand (think norms cheapest are £5 for 2?), but then similar issues for gas bottles and availability.

I never allow air to glug in through my tap to oxidise the beer. If/when the pressure drops, add some Co2. Simple. 1 or 2 second burst re-charges the keg.

the ageing part, again I beg to differ on. I am drinking some I made 3-4 months ago, and its perfectly fine.
pubs delivery system means they need to get it all drunk in a couple of days, but cornies or plastic kegs will shelf life that a much longer time.

thought it fair to balance the argument for you.

go check availability of gas bottles for kegs/cornies, also the kegs/cornies and spares themselves before committing yourself.

you may well find that UK kegs aren't available there in the US anyway, so it may well be cornies.
are there any US HB online stores to peruse you could research further?

chris_reboot

Re: King Keg USA

Post by chris_reboot » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:18 pm

Chris-x1 wrote:I'd certainly be supprised if you could regularly draw off more than a few pints a night using the natural conditioning gas in the keg. For a start, if you look at the head space in there, even compresssed at the maximum 10 psi, you can't store 25L of gas in 1L of head space and in my experience most dried homebrewers yeasts are very poor when it comes to secondary fermenation and don't tend to produce a lot of extra gas after the priming sugars have been fermented out. (usually within a few days).
The last brew I finished was pressured all the way to the dregs under natural secondary. Few days is under-pessimistic. If it lasts a few days, you have a leaky seal somewhere. that said, I know cornies can go way higher due to construction materials etc.
Chris-x1 wrote:I'd be more inclined to suspect one of the other problems that King Kegs suffer from and that's a poor seal around the lid allowing air in, equalising he pressure without you realising it.
Like anything, if you spend the time testing it, and take relevant precautions like vaselining the lid, there's no leakage in or out unless the pressure is too much.
Chris-x1 wrote:King Kegs are about 40 quid now, but you can pick up corni kegs for around 20-25 quid, particularly in the US (which is relative to this particular thread).
Agreed. In this case, he's probably better off starting that way if he's serious about it, rather than going the cheap and cheerful approach and upgrading later anyway. the 40 quid is new to be fair, and 20-25 is used though.
Chris-x1 wrote:Gas wise, s30 cylinders are an extremely expensive way to buy co2, appart from the fact they are prone to leaking they contain a small fraction of the amount of co2 that a pub gas cylinder contains for about a third of the price. The equasions are around somewhere if you want to compare the two but suffice to say you'll get through dozens of s30 cylinders at 6 quid a throw for every 1 pub gas cylinder at around 17 quid without taking into consideration the cost of driving to the homebrew shop.
Agreed, price wise they are still better than bulbs though :)
Chris-x1 wrote:I'll have to take your word for it that your beer isn't oxidising but fwiw, if you speak to certain CBA judges (and BJCP judges), they will tell you that they are regularly presented with infected or oxidised beer and the brewer doesn't even realise it because they have become so used to drinking it that way, even in the pub. I'm not saying this is true in your case but it may go some way to explaining why I am sceptical when I hear that.
I can believe that! But I know on the whole I've had excellent results with my KK's. I await judgement on cornies when I can afford to give those a go. I probably wont look back though!

ECW

Re: King Keg USA

Post by ECW » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:03 pm

Chrisses,
Many thanks for your detailed discussion, I am groping (!) my way towards an informed decision now. Over here it is all cornies and nowt else. I found a few US threads with people saying "I've bought/found/been given this plastic pressure barrel, what is it for?" and the discussions normally end with agreement that those freaky Brits use them, but no-one knows how or why! :roll:

I felt that I was being pushed into getting cornies through lack of an alternative and that it would be expensive and might no produce what I want. I agree they would be a good investment, if they produce what I want, but they are expensive to start with. However, the gas cylinders are readily available; the LHBS refills them. As far as KKs go, even after contacting the manufacturers direct, it appears plastic pressure barrels just can't be had for love nor money on this side of the pond. The American solution to everything is stainless steel, welded and expensive. (However, the LHBS did offer me the 12 gal plastic drums they get LME in, way too big for what I wanted, but then I thought - just add a Walmart kettle element, and there's my new AG boiler. :D )

Now, after following all your helpful comments, I think I can use cornies to achieve what I want and the availability of gas, parts, kegs etc., means I'd be a fool not to take advantage. (Especially as when I go home in 3 years' time I can ship them all back with me :wink: )

Of course, this was all urgent when the thread started and the beer was fermenting nicely, now I've racked it to a secondary FV and it seems to have stuck! :evil: More yeast, methinks, so off the the LHBS and perhaps I'll peruse the cornies whilst I'm there...

Thanks again for all the advice,
Ed

chris_reboot

Re: King Keg USA

Post by chris_reboot » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:12 pm

your welcome Ed.

think its the right way for you.
do they sell second hand ones there, as even my LHBS sells them for £45 recon'd.
new- never seen them new here, think that's only US!

good luck!

ECW

Re: King Keg USA

Post by ECW » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:29 am

Chris-x1 wrote:There's always this...
Image
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/TAP_A_DR ... 29C120.cfm
Yeeees. :dry: I have seen them around and I suppose they are really the nearest thing to a plastic pressure cask one can find here. But they don't look awfully robust, do they? Or am I being too sniffy? Plus the yeast will settle nicely to the bottom to be sucked up into the tap... :-&

BTW, probably not stuck as it doesn't taste sweet, just timed out at 1013 and 3.6%. I suppose that means I can drink it faster... :beer:

ECW

Re: King Keg USA

Post by ECW » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:47 am

Well, the argument finally got sorted when (with the agreement of my wife :lol: ) I bought the cornie set up today. And yes, it wasn't cheap; and yes, it isn't exactly what I wanted right here right now, but I know it will work and I've read a great deal of advice in other threads about how to use it. So we'll see. I will post updates as required. Thank you all very much for the discussion.

And actually, a 3.6% summer bitter is ideal for the tedious American summer (it is hot and long) so I'm not so sorry for the way the brew turned out.

Cheers all,

Ed :beer:

chris_reboot

Re: King Keg USA

Post by chris_reboot » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:19 am

well done Ed.
I suspect you wont regret it!

Send some of that summer over here to blighty will ya?
It's rubbish here at the moment :(

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