2 tesco elements in a boiler.

[danielzieba]

hey,


i made a boiler with a tesco kettle. it works fine however its a bit small for the job so i would like to fit another element to get it upto the boiler faster..

I brew in the garage so i run a 15m extension cable into the garage . it has 2 plug sockets on the end.

my question is, how do you get rouns using 2 kettle elements at the same time? is it too risky? my extension cable is quiet industrial. the extension cable is decent think cable. not a cheap one. i think it was made by hand.

one thought i had was putting thr second element on a timer (the ones u control lights with when you go out) and have it 1 min off 1 min off.

will this reduce risk of anything melting?

[6470zzy]

I think that perhaps you should be on good terms with your local fire brigade.

[befuggled]

Those elements are somewhere between 1.85 and 2.4 kW. The maximum you can safely get from the 13A socket which your extension plugs into is about 3kW ( I won't go into all the details, but we used to have 240V +/- 6% and now we have 230V +6%, -10% ref:DTI, and this could well change in the future for green reasons).

The bottom line is that 2x 2.4kW is a great deal more than 3kW. It will go bang, or phut goes the fuse, or smoke goes the wire or plugs and sockets. With luck it would just be the 13A fuse in the extension's plug.

You will need two separate extensions, both rated at 13A to do the job safely, or get a sparky to put in a proper spur direct to your consumer unit (like they fit for immersion heaters and some electric showers).
Remember that the extension lead must not be coiled up or on a reel - it needs to be laid out so that it can be cooled in the air.

Good luck!

[danielzieba]

yes the extension is always laid out. its not in a roll anyway!

i think its going to have to be 2 extension leads. bit of a pain in the ar$e! but probably worth it.

also need to put a hot tap outside, its suprising how much longer it takes to heat cold tap water to temp for mashing/sparging than. must add an hour onto the brewday!!!

[befuggled]

It would add at least two hours to mine, that's why I have got it fired up now and it will cool overnight before transfer to the HLT. I am also tempted to put a timer on the HLT so that it could be ready first thing in the morning, but I don't trust it yet!

They used to say that you should never drink from the hot tap. That was for two reasons at least 1) disolved lead - probably not much to worry about these days and 2) because the hot water tank in your attic is not sealed and can collect crap.. I know that when I looked in mine some years ago, I vowed never to drink out of it!
You might want to take a look inside yours - it might well be ok, or a mouse might have dropped into it.....
Sorry to be a damp squib.

[danielzieba]

i did not know this was the case!

thats pretty minging!

its gonna have the bollocks boiled out of it thought isnt it?

[Parva]

It's actually the cold water header tank that's in the loft and this refills the hot water tank (usually situated in a cupboard upstairs somewhere). However, the end result is the same, the cold water header tank can have some pretty nasty stuff in it and whilst ok for taking a bath in it I would be dubious about brewing with it.

On another note however, many hot water / central heating systems are now run by combi-boilers which is basically the same boiler as you get in the old hot-water tank system BUT there is no hot-water tank. The water is drawn straight off of the mains cold water supply, heated by the boiler and straight out to tap, there are no storage tanks involved. If you have this system then I see no reason why you shouldn't use it to create your mash or sparging water (campden tablet and other additions aside) provided that it can reach the temperatures that are required for the brewing process.

[befuggled]

I realised I had not explained it right after I shut down the PC last night, and was going to correct myself this morning!
However, your comments about a combi-boiler are making me think a bit harder about getting the liquor right in the shortest possible time.
If you stick with a cold feed to the garage, you might consider a mobile home type in-line water heater (propane or butane powered).
Or, have an in-line electric heater in the house to get the water hot before sending it to the garage - that way you do not need to use a second extension.
Just the ramblings of someone who is not yet awake and is waiting for the HLT to get up to temperature...

[danielzieba]

i think this talk of getting additional heaters is getting a bit to involved and expensive.

im brewing fine as it is. my main thoughts are to save a bit of money by not using as much electric and to save a bit of time in the morning.

i think for my next batch ill give it a go with the hot tap so i dont have to heat as much cold water up, hence saving me time. i think tap water comes out at approx 50 deg C?

its too hot to stick your hand in anyway. so i must be half way there! i think cold water tap is 12 deg c?

so its a good 40 deg c difference if im correct.

[CJBrew]

It's an interesting idea to use a combi-boiler to help heat the water quickly. That's exactly what I have in my house and although I don't know exactly what the temperature output is, it's probably about 65-70'C or so. Nearly perfect sparge temperature!

So I can use warm tap water to dough in, after loading my HLT with hot tap water and getting a quick boil for the first infusion, re-fill the HLT with hot tap water and basically just keeping it warm and insulated until sparge time? Great!

Is there really no problem with this idea?

[danielzieba]

i cant see why there would be a problem.

you may as well get the combi boiler to pump out hot water into your boiler then you just have to heat it up a little to sparge/mash temps...

its miles cheaper than having a kettle element struggling to do it for a couple of hours.

i used to use hot water when i brewed in the kitchen but its only since ive been moved into the garage that i have to use cold water and i can really feel the difference in the time it takes to heat up cold tap water to 72 deg C and 80 deg C

i have a pay as you go electric and gas supply so i can monitor how much its costing me per brew. its usually £2.00 but its more now im heating cold tap water to the above temps...and it means my brew day is longer.

next time i brew im gonna put the hot water from the immersion chiller coil back into the HLT and do two brews. that'll save yet more time and money.

[boingy]

next time i brew im gonna put the hot water from the immersion chiller coil back into the HLT and do two brews. that'll save yet more time and money.

That's pretty much what some microbreweries do. Their HLTs are highly insulated and lose only a few degrees each day so even if they only brew twice per week they are still saving some heating energy and time. Makes good sense.

The only problem I can see with using this idea to do two brews in one day is the fact that you really want to get the second mash on as soon as the first batch is in the boiler rather than wait for the end of the boil otherwise it will be a very long day.

[danielzieba]

boingy.


thats a very very very good point. please excuse my foolishness! i knew this but im at work so having to "sneak" onto the forum lol.

[CJBrew]

I'm going to try this next brew. Could potentially cut up to an hour off the time!

Got lots of DIY to do before I can do this as I have embarked on a project to make my setup entirely gravity-fed.
I think I should put a temperature probe in the HLT even if I do without the sight tube for one brew... Also have to construct the wooden stand for the HLT.

[harvs]

I use my combi boiler to heat my water and it works really well - cheaper and a lot quicker. Go for it