Bag In A Box + Hand Pull. Prime or Not Prime?

[stevetk189]

Hi folks,

I've got an Angram beer pump and a selection of different size baginabox bags in boxes with Vitop connector adaptor thing.

My initial thought was not to prime the beer I'll be putting in the bags but now I'm not sure. Bags are 10 litres and 20 litres.

Any advice on whether to prime or not as well as how much sugar to prime with will be well received.

Cheers in advance.

Steve.

[Martin G]

I think the bags should be carefully filled with bright beer that has previously been carbonated. I don't think the bags or hand pumps are designed for pressure. Not from speaking from experience though, so may have the wrong end of the stick.

[stevetk189]

I think the bags should be carefully filled with bright beer that has previously been carbonated. I don't think the bags or hand pumps are designed for pressure. Not from speaking from experience though, so may have the wrong end of the stick.

Yeah cheers, I do agree re: pressure. It wasn't something I'd thought about having to bother with as long as the beer is conditioned before bagging. Then, I started bumping into hints on this 'ere Interwebs thing about priming not just for bags but some cask beers too. I reckon for the sake of the first 10l I just won't bother with priming and see what comes out, it's bound to be better than an exploded bag.

[kebabman]

I see that you are in France, otherwise I would have said get hold of some polypins which are a fair bit tougher and can take a bit of conditioning pressure.
If you put previously carbonated bright beer into a baginabox the beer will lose condition in a couple of days and when pulled through the handpump a head may be created but the beer will still taste flat and lifeless.

[stevetk189]

I see that you are in France, otherwise I would have said get hold of some polypins which are a fair bit tougher and can take a bit of conditioning pressure.
If you put previously carbonated bright beer into a baginabox the beer will lose condition in a couple of days and when pulled through the handpump a head may be created but the beer will still taste flat and lifeless.

I appreciate the input, I wasn't going to pre carbonate it. Just condition in secondary until it's dropped bright and bag. From what I remember from working in and later running pubs the cask beer wasn't pre carbonated. It was pretty flat and lifeless from the tap, the handpull livened it up when served. I am going back what seems about 80,000 years though so I might have forgotten something.

[kebabman]

Cask beer does get carbonated in the cask by priming or leaving a degree or two of gravity still yet to ferment out when the cask is filled.
Also bright beer in a baginabox will not keep as there is no yeast in the beer to very quietly keep producing co2 to preserve and give condition to the beer and the inner bag is pretty flimsy and so I wouldn't trust it to take any pressure anyway.
There is a thread about serving beer from polypins, often using handpumps, on this forum.

[paulg]

search the forum for a thread by dennis king called polypin management ,it may help with your questions
paul

[stevetk189]

Cheers guys. BagInABox claim on their state (and show pics filling from a cask) their system is good for what I'm trying to achieve so I'm going to be seriously miffed if the bags aren't up to it.

I'll read the threads mentioned above but I wonder if a small amount of priming, underfilling the bags and leaving the bag tap upwards and venting excess co2 would work - prior to hooking up to the pump. I'm not a piss head (well...not much... well.... .... ) so I am not expecting the bagged beers to be hanging around for weeks. They way the bottled stuff is going down (I notice we're suddenly getting more evening visitors these days) a few days will do.

[stevetk189]

A bit of an update.

I drew off a couple of pints from the unprimed bag a couple of nights ago. Nice beer, cleared but lacking a certain something when compared to what I bottled at the same time which is flummin' glorious.

Un-hooked the hand pump (noticed it leaks from the chamber thing (i forget what it's really called but I've been in touch with Angram and it's getting sorted) and rinsed it all through.

First big pisser!!!! BagInAbox .... soggy box the next day. Leaking from around the weld of the tap receiver fitting. carefully transferred 8litres beer to a new bag FFS!!!!!

2nd big pisser. The primed bag has been swelling and I've been purging the gas each evening. Now the thing is ballooned like a don't know what but... double skin you see, with a flacid bag of beer inside.... The claim of gas not getting trapped between the layers seems to be bollox. No matter how I squeeze the bag it aint getting rid of the untrappable, trapped gas.

Plus note on the above, the primed beer is gorgeous clear and even a tad of fizz when dispensed from the tap. Luckily we have friends over tomorrow night and should easily polish the whole bag off.

With regard to the unprimed beer and transfer to another bag, it also fu**ing leaked from the bag weld around the tap receiver and soggied up another box... 2 bags and 2 boxes for 10l of beer, not so cheap after all.

Decided to botle the beer from the unprimed bag and add some priming solution to the bottles... it might be fu**ed, it might be ok. Lesson learned, it was an experiment after all.

Will I buy baginabox from jigsaw again? ... right now... not a fu**ing chance!

Checking out plastic pins and they're less than 30 quid each... pin cask condition then run of to bags for serving perhaps... the next phase.

[greenxpaddy]

I have just found your thread here.

I have bought some polypins from the homebrewshop and an Angram pump so I am going down your route.

I have a funny feeling I read one of Critch's posts where he says a cask destined for hand pump dispense is primed at a level one fifth of what it would be for a bottle conditioning situation.

As I normally prime my bottles at 2.1 vols CO2 or thereabouts thats 90g sugar per 20L (at 16degrees C) I would put the revised prime for a cask at 18g sugar per 20L. That would equate to 1.2 vols CO2....or in psi about 5 psi.

So the question is can a polypin cope with 5 psi? Has anyone systematically increased priming to see when they fail?

Personal gut feeling is 5 psi probably won't be a problem....but we shall see.