Mini-keg mini CO2 setup. Advice Wanted Please!

[ajclarkson]

Hey all,

At the minute I'm happily using mini-kegs for my brews, and due to space etc I'm not interested in going to cornies just yet. However, there are a couple of niggles that I have with the mini kegs, and I'm thinking of a way to solve them. Sorry for the lengthy post, just wanted to give as much information as possible!

The problems:

1) CO2 regulation in with the small bulb chargers is near on impossible, and complete guesswork. As a result, if I've tapped a keg and had a couple of pints, then leave it alone for a couple of days and have another, if I didn't guess the CO2 right, the beer has lost a chunk of carbonation.

2) CO2 bulbs cost quite a bit really. Again, with the guesswork you can chew through these at a less than optimal rate, and the cost just racks up.

3) The CO2 dispensing taps are pretty expensive, and so I'm limited to only having 1 brew "on tap" at the minute

So I've been looking around for suggestions on a mini-kegerator style setup, hooking a CO2 bottle up with a regulator. As I mentioned previously, I'm tight on space, and certainly don't have enough room / money to build a fridge at this point. So I was thinking of taking this back to basics.

I've seen around the internet that someone used a Halfords Welding cylinder to dispense from a king keg.At £16 that will seem a pricey option to you cornie setup users, but is actually cheaper than the same volume of CO2 in the bulbs I'm currently using.(16g bulb average cost of £1 vs 16g from cylinder at 64p) It also has the added advantage of been much smaller than a full CO2 cylinder. They're also classed as 'disposable' rather than refillable. That suits me at the minute as I don't have a car, so getting CO2 refills could be a nightmare.

The other clear advantage is that if I can rig this into a setup, the CO2 bottle can dispense more than one keg at a time. I will also carry on naturally carbing for the minute, as I'm happy with the process and that'll obviously make a bottle last much longer.

As for dispensing from the kegs Can Direct make a tapping system similar to the CO2 taps on offer, but instead of having a bulb charger and dispenser they have ports to connect up to a gas and beer line system. At £23 each, these are much cheaper than the £45 + shipping I paid for my Fass Frich Party Star Deluxe tap.



I've also seen many DIY versions of these on the net, but I think they'd end up costing me around the same to possibly not do as a good a job in the long run.

My main question from all of this is on the gas side. Obviously I need a regulator, and I'm unsure whether anyone will have the necessary experience or knowledge to answer, whether I can get a regulator that would be able to be used with cornies if I upgrade a couple of years down the line, when I have a bit more space etc?

Obviously any cobra taps, beer line and so on are going to be reuseable on a larger system, so I just thought it'd work out nicely if a regulator would too. I'm in the early days of planning this, so if anyone can point me in the direction of some suitable multioutput regulators to get my research in that area going, it'd be very much appreciated.

Again, sorry for the long thread, but hoping I can make this a reality and have the benefits of kegs on a smaller scale!

[seymour]

I assume you saw these? Some detailed parts lists and pictures, doesn't look that expensive.
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtop ... n+mini+keg
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtop ... eg#p982823

[ajclarkson]

Cheers for the seymour.

I had seen the DIY one in the first link, but not the heineken reuse one. I don't think the DIY ones would be too expensive to make in brass and copper, but I remember reading in that thread there are some possible concerns with using brass and copper. I'll have to have a good scour back through it. While the later iterations he made with stainless look perfect, by the time I had bought all of the stainless and worked out how to bend a thin stainless tube without kinking I think I'd be up at the cost of the tapping device pictured.

In either case, my main concern at the moment still relies on getting the gas out of a disposable welding cylinder, through a suitable regulator and off to 2+ kegs.

[stu-le-brew]

The problems:

1) CO2 regulation in with the small bulb chargers is near on impossible, and complete guesswork. As a result, if I've tapped a keg and had a couple of pints, then leave it alone for a couple of days and have another, if I didn't guess the CO2 right, the beer has lost a chunk of carbonation.

2) CO2 bulbs cost quite a bit really. Again, with the guesswork you can chew through these at a less than optimal rate, and the cost just racks up.

3) The CO2 dispensing taps are pretty expensive, and so I'm limited to only having 1 brew "on tap" at the minute

Not sure what you problem is, but it sounds like you have a small gas leak , I have experience of a gas cartridge lasting for three kegs.

I buy cartridges in bulk from Germany (EBay) 50 or 100 at a time price is in region of 50 pence.

As for dispensing from the kegs Can Direct make a tapping system similar to the CO2 taps on offer, but instead of having a bulb charger and dispenser they have ports to connect up to a gas and beer line system. At £23 each, these are much cheaper than the £45 + shipping I paid for my Fass Frich Party Star Deluxe tap.

I have bought a couple of cheap taps from Can Direct, but was not impressed so have never used them, I am a fan of the Party Star Deluxe

[ajclarkson]

Hi Stu,

Thanks for coming in on this, your posts about the mini-keg system were really helpful for me when I was initially getting setup.

In answer to a couple of your points, I have had CO2 bulbs last for a couple of kegs before, and that's fine. My problem is that, particularly when a keg is 1/2 full or so, I'm guessing how long to leave the bulb charging for to fill the headspace. And if I get that wrong, it obviously uses more CO2, but it isn't as bad as not using enough and my beer losing carbonation over a couple of days between dispensing.

I guess my aim here is to have a regulated gas supply that is set and forget rather than worry about turning the CO2 on and off at the tap. With regards to having a leak, I've noticed this on a couple of different kegs and they were both using brand new two part bungs. Maybe I've been unlucky and not got a good seal on both, and the carbonation loss is due to that?

As for the Can Direct taps, I've read your posts about those, and have seen the issues. However I was thinking since this is just a dip tube and connections for beer/gas they may not be as problematic. However, another option in this area is to have a crack at the DIY job that seymour posted a link to above.

[seymour]

It sounds like you both know more about this than I, so excuse me if this is an ignorant question, but to clarify:

You initially fill the mini-kegs with fresh beer containing some live yeast and a little priming sugar, such that the secondary fermentation provides the main carbonation, right? Thus the CO2 bulbs are simply there to keep pressure on the naturally cask-conditioned beer, right?

[ajclarkson]

Yep spot on, naturally carb them and the the CO2 keep pressure there, and is used for dispensing, by forcing the beer up a dip tube and out through the tap.

[seymour]

What about this? But it sounds like you'd already have to own the Party Star Deluxe tap, right?

http://hrbts.tripod.com/archive/techneek/minikeg.html
http://www.liquidbread.com/

Mini-Kegging For Those Who Haven't
by Sammy Samoluk
(Appeared in the July 1999 issue of the Home Imbrewment)

[excerpt]...Another interesting method of carbonation was suggested to me by Kim Harwig, but it requires the use of a conventional CO2 bottle and regulator, and a special device to connect the regulator to the tap. The connecting device is marketed as The Carbonator, by Liquid Bread, Inc. of Apopka, Florida. The device is intended for carbonating beverages in 2-liter plastic soda bottles, and consists of a cap with an integral poppet valve. It connects to the standard ball-lock fittings on cornelius kegs, and sells for under $15. The mini keg CO2 tap cartridge housing uses the same threads as the soda bottle allowing the connection of the CO2 bottle to the mini keg....

[seymour]

Another question, sorry to high-jack your thread:

Do those taps work with the original bung:



-OR- must you use this after-market two-piece bung:

[ajclarkson]

What about this? But it sounds like you'd already have to own the Party Star Deluxe tap, right?

http://hrbts.tripod.com/archive/techneek/minikeg.html
http://www.liquidbread.com/

Cheers for that. You would already have to have the Party Star Deluxe or similar tap yeah, which could be a great solution for people who just want to swap out the CO2 bulbs and already have multiple taps. For me though, I'm looking for a solution that avoids me having to buy multiple taps and gives the benefits of CO2 regulation at the same time.

As for the bungs, you'd need the two-piece for the CO2 taps. The middle white section is a plastic stopper that is pushed out and into the beer by the dip tube on the tap. That allows you to store the keg without a tap, and then 'tap' it while maintaining a good seal.

Hope that helps

Adam

[stu-le-brew]

I guess my aim here is to have a regulated gas supply that is set and forget rather than worry about turning the CO2 on and off at the tap. With regards to having a leak, I've noticed this on a couple of different kegs and they were both using brand new two part bungs. Maybe I've been unlucky and not got a good seal on both, and the carbonation loss is due to that?

It could be that you have a slight gas leak from the tap, so I suggest you check for tightness the hexagonal fitting inside where the gas cartridge goes, I have fixed at least one tap leak by tightening this up a bit.

[ajclarkson]

Thanks for that, I'll check it out and see if that's causing some of the issues. Even though I aim to go to a setup similar to what I described above, I'll be keeping hold of the party star tap so I can have a portable keg as well

[soupdragon]

Another question, sorry to high-jack your thread:

Do those taps work with the original bung:



-OR- must you use this after-market two-piece bung:

The three piece bungs do actually work with the mini kegs. Just pull the red cap off and insert the dip tube in the same way as you would with the two piece. The only thing you have to watch for is when you assemble the 3 piece bung. If the top isn't sitting the right way ( in the closed position ) when you snap the centre piece in place from below you run the risk of a leak. The black bit has a channel inside it that allows them to vent for discharge on the bottom tap kegs.

Cheers Tom

[darkonnis]

Yet more ideas :O good thread this, I have a about 6 mini kegs that have never been used because I don't get round to drinking them in time so I used bottles. Party star and a CO2 bulb eh? hmmm... I think when the funds allow, that'll be next!

[ajclarkson]

The three piece bungs do actually work with the mini kegs. Just pull the red cap off and insert the dip tube in the same way as you would with the two piece. The only thing you have to watch for is when you assemble the 3 piece bung. If the top isn't sitting the right way ( in the closed position ) when you snap the centre piece in place from below you run the risk of a leak. The black bit has a channel inside it that allows them to vent for discharge on the bottom tap kegs.

Cheers Tom

My bad, I didn't know the three piece ones worked as well. Cheers for correcting that for anyone reading this.

Yet more ideas :O good thread this, I have a about 6 mini kegs that have never been used because I don't get round to drinking them in time so I used bottles. Party star and a CO2 bulb eh? hmmm... I think when the funds allow, that'll be next!

Glad the thread is of use to you! The Party Star tap is great and I'll certainly be keeping hold of it, even if I go this route. You won't be disappointed with the CO2 tapping!