Corny-style poppets and O-rings

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Kev888
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Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Kev888 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:25 pm

I've been starting to refurbish my ball-lock posts and poppets - of which I have a few kinds. The post and dip-tube O-Rings seem universal but the poppet rubbers are more challenging

I have a few of these, which I think are probably the 'becker' type poppets:
Image
The BS008 size of O-ring seem to fit these perfectly - I've replaced some in the past with no issues.

I also have some that look like the Italian brand 'AEB' R-style poppets in which the three toes are longer and point more outwards. These are retained in the posts (which are also taller) and so are more awkward to get out (youtube video on removing them here, not mine):
Image
These too seem to take the BS008 size of O-rings very well, I've only replaced a couple of these in the past but they've been problem free for some time.

However I also have some that I think are one of the true cornelius style poppets,
Image
I've not replaced any of the rubbers on these before, and at least with initial attempts the O-rings aren't working for me so well. The poppets have a smaller diameter shaft under the rubber and the 008 O-ring can go off centre, which means it can 'sometimes' not seat properly. I'm thinking of trying some fatter O-rings (so smaller ID) but can't get the ideal size - has anyone found a solution for these poppets?

Cheers
Kev
Kev

Deller12

Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Deller12 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:23 pm

Hi Kev,


I have been working on a universal poppet assembley that can be used on all corny kegs for a while now. I'm still working on the spring design, once I have sorted this I will send you some to trial. I did make a post about this but can't find it maybe someone else can remember where it was.

Cheers

Lee

masterosouffle

Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by masterosouffle » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:44 pm

Very interesting post Kev,thanks!
I have regularly changed my o-rings, but never on my poppers, how important would you consider these to be? Are they as or less likely to leak as the post / dip tube rings that are more common,y talked about / offered for sale?
Cheers

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barneey
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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by barneey » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:51 pm

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55241&hilit=spring This post?

Strange how things have a habit of crossing over / same thoughts, Ive been bottling and kegging to day, spent quite a bit of time (trying) cleaning the little poppet things.
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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Fil » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:54 am

i would have thought the poppet ring would be one of the most worn as its used every time a disconnect goes on or comes off, and therefore would be the common spare that gets replaced, like he post ring that gets similar frequency of use??

I do have 1 or 2 that need checking when disconnected and sometimes need a little help resitting and sealing, i bought the service ring kit and there were none for the poppets...
i intend to get future corny orings from the ebay seller highlighted in this aussie forum post,, if this is a bad thing to link to sorry but it is helpful..
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... opic=67746
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

Cazamodo

Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Cazamodo » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:42 am

Out of my 4 kegs, Only 1 pair of poppets actually have removable o-rings., The others are all moulded plastic which is a pain.

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Kev888
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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Kev888 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:06 pm

Thanks chaps!

Lee, your universal poppets look really useful; if you try to replace these things like-for-like, the various types are a mine-field and not cheap either. They'll be even more attractive if one can't replace the rubbers on the cornelius type.

Masterosouffle, it seems to depend on specific cornies really, though in general more of my leaks are from the poppets than anything else, followed by the lid seals on some of the more dented cornies. I've not had many leaks from the post/disconnect seals or dip-tubes as I replaced any that looked dodgy, but I have had a small number from the PRVs. The poppets are possibly the most frustrating for me; you can often get the troublesome ones to seat by poking them a bit, but sometimes leaks seem to occur later, and the ones from the product side are especially messy/annoying.

My seal failures are usually because the rubber is finally getting too old - hard, cracked and/or miss-shapen. When trying to force-carbonate several cornies at once for my christmas/new-year stash I had a few leaks in a row - which included loosing a new pub-sized cylinder of gas overnight and having to clean up a load of beer; I decided then that the cornies aren't really working for me, so i'm going to try overhauling all the rubbers on my kegs pre-emptively rather than wait until its gone wrong. Aside from the poppets issue, I've got new softer/silicone rings for the lids, new rings for all the posts and dip-tubes and I'm probably going to try glueing new O-rings or rubber disks onto the PRV inserts - its possible I may be foolishly mending things that aren't broken but we'll see.

Barneey (thanks for the link too BTW) I could probably have spent more time on them myself really. Norm advised me not to routinely strip the posts so generally I've only done so when theres been a problem. I can see the wisdom in this as the rubbers do seem to have become moulded to their specific location over time and disturbing things or mixing them up can definitely cause issues, but I'm not convinced it isn't a bit of a fudge - if the rubbers were in good condition then ('IF' you keep track of re-matching the different types) it would surely be better to clean them properly and/or keep an eye on their condition.

Fil yes the poppets are a key weakness for me, but I too have not seen any refurbishment kits for them. Probably its because there are just so many confusingly similar types and only a few are actually designed to take O-rings. The O-ring sizes I use are largely gleaned from other posts/people on here - for the poppets that do take them BS008, the external post ones are BS111, the lid are 417 and the dip tube ones 'were' BS804 - however the latter disagrees with the aussi page you linked to; mine work but I would say their #109 (which is slightly chunkier) would be a better match. The lid ones I got are silicone (from here, as this is a less common size), which I'm hoping being both new and softer rubber will help those cornies where the mouth is less true than it once was.

Cazamodo That sounds similar to the ones I'm having issues with. I didn't realise until I found a yellow one (most of mine are black), but there actually is a rubber as well as the poppet's plastic bit (that seats the spring), but its a flat thing with a small hole in thats specially made to fit. The 008 o-rings I have can flop around that shaft; I'm thinking of trying some smaller ID O-rings in case that helps but I measure the shaft to be around 2.7mm diameter whilst the smallest O-rings I can find (that would be fat enough to make up the required OD) are 3mm ID so there'd still be some slop. Maybe a pair of rings one inside the other could work but an additional issue is that I don't know if small ones would stretch enough to go on over the poppet's head; the AEB style poppets can be disassembled as their bottom/foot/leg plate is only held on by a crude bayonet thing, but the corny-style ones seem to be fixed more permanently together.

Cheers
Kev
Last edited by Kev888 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kev888
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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Kev888 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:58 pm

Just to mention, I've got some fatter/smaller-ID O-rings on the way to try on the cornelius poppets - I've no idea if they'll work or even go over the poppet head but we'll see.

Cheers
kev
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Fil
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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Fil » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:12 pm

sorry miss post
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

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Kev888
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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Kev888 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:34 pm

Well the fatter O-rings can still move around/off-centre and yet their ID is so tight that its a real struggle to get them on - in fact I don't believe these poppets are designed to have their rubbers replaced even with original parts, because I can't see how you'd get new ones on.

I've been so incensed with all the unreliable inconsistencies and niggles across my cornies that experimental solutions aren't really what I'm chasing anyway; I think its time to sort them once and for all, back to their (functionally) original condition. So I posted another thread on buying new poppets (here) if anyone has guidance on that?

EDIT: Lee, I should mention that this isn't anything at all against your plans for making some; that sounds like a great idea and I'm sure they'll be excellent. Its just that in my frustration with all the leaks I'm looking for a sure-fire way to get them back as close as possible to their new state.

Cheers
Kev
Kev

Deller12

Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Deller12 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:40 am

Kev888 wrote:Well the fatter O-rings can still move around/off-centre and yet their ID is so tight that its a real struggle to get them on - in fact I don't believe these poppets are designed to have their rubbers replaced even with original parts, because I can't see how you'd get new ones on.

I've been so incensed with all the unreliable inconsistencies and niggles across my cornies that experimental solutions aren't really what I'm chasing anyway; I think its time to sort them once and for all, back to their (functionally) original condition. So I posted another thread on buying new poppets (here) if anyone has guidance on that?

EDIT: Lee, I should mention that this isn't anything at all against your plans for making some; that sounds like a great idea and I'm sure they'll be excellent. Its just that in my frustration with all the leaks I'm looking for a sure-fire way to get them back as close as possible to their new state.

Cheers
Kev
Hi Kev,

I have fitted my new poppets into all of my corni kegs so far all looks fine :D I have had to hand wind the springs myself its a real pain in the butt. If you like I will send you a pair to try out to see it that work on your various kegs. If your trials go ok I will get a batch of springs made.

Lee

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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Kev888 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:02 pm

Good stuff! Really glad they're working out :-)

Pity about having to make the springs yourself - that sounds fairly tedious! I guess if your former works out it'll still be perfectly do-able, though.

Currently I'm looking at getting original replacements for myself, but either way I'd be happy to test a couple for you, if you'd like. I seem to have two types of ball-lock post, which I 'believe' are the standard cornelius and the taller AEB ones, if thats of any use to you.

Cheers
Kev
Kev

Deller12

Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Deller12 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:25 pm

Kev888 wrote:Good stuff! Really glad they're working out :-)

Pity about having to make the springs yourself - that sounds fairly tedious! I guess if your former works out it'll still be perfectly do-able, though.

Currently I'm looking at getting original replacements for myself, but either way I'd be happy to test a couple for you, if you'd like. I seem to have two types of ball-lock post, which I 'believe' are the standard cornelius and the taller AEB ones, if thats of any use to you.

Cheers
Kev
Kev,

PM with your address and I will poppet a few in the post for you to try :wink:

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Kev888
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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by Kev888 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:38 pm

Heh heh, here start the poppet puns!

PM sent

Cheers
Kev
Kev

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Re: Corny-style poppets and O-rings

Post by 6470zzy » Fri May 29, 2015 9:37 pm

Kev888 wrote:Heh heh, here start the poppet puns!

PM sent

Cheers
Kev
Kev I am interested to know if you were able to successfully change out the poppets on your AEB kegs? The AEB ones are a royal pain to say the least.

Cheers
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