Filtering beer

[chris2012]

So first of all, the lack of clarity in my beer is driving me up the wall, I've tried in my latest beer, a bitter, adding gelatine, cooling to around 0.4C leaving for a week, draining two pints from the keg, it's still not clear, now i've added Kieselsol for 3 days, drained some more, still not clear :'( (I used around 10ml of 20% gelatine in around 15 or so litres, and 10ml of Kieselsol)

So I'm thinking of filtering now, I tried this before, a very long time ago, with a blue filter housing thing, but I'm not really sure what size filter I used, I think possibly 0.1micron.

But this time I'm thinking of doing the following:

Filter first through 1 or 5 micron filter, to 2nd keg.

Then filter from that keg, to another, with the 0.1micron filter.

I'd make sure the beer was around 0.4C before attempting filtering.

I'm just wondering has anyone had good success with filtering? I'm kind of lost at the moment, with what to do.

[orlando]

Clarity problems can sometimes be down to process or recipe. Water treatment can go a long way towards helping you to crack this. Getting the mash pH right with enough calcium, followed by a vigorous rolling boil finishing with copper finings (Proatafloc etc). A fast chill and a very fresh yeast, followed by a cold crash for several days will go a long way towards dealing with haze before it starts. If you avoid the creation of haze forming proteins in the first place you don't need to filter, unless your selling to the public.

[chris2012]

Yeah, I'd love to find the root cause, I think I'm crashing cool and long enough, so I'm assuming the issue lies on the brewday itself? I think I am chilling the wort from the boiler fast enough too, as far as I can tell. Takes around 15 mins or so, to chill down.

In the last brew, possibly I used liquid yeast for around a wort of 1.040 if I recall correctly. Which I think is ok, without a starter.

Water treatment sounds like a good thing to look at for me! I should definitely get my tap water analysed.

Edit: Also I'll look into mash pH too, sounds a good plan.

[orlando]

Water treatment sounds like a good thing to look at for me! I should definitely get my tap water analysed.

That's the starting point. Use wallybrew on here.

[chris2012]

Just messaged him

[chris2012]

And just for curiosity, I bought a Sawyer SP128 0.1 micron absolute filter from eBay, just to see if that clears up the beer heh.

(That filter is actually designed for hikers, but would be cool if it worked)

[guypettigrew]

Have you been able to check the clarity of the wort as you go through the brewing process?

In other words, is the wort clear as it runs from the mash tun? Is it clear as it runs from the boiler?

If it's clear at these stages then the problem is most likely suspended yeast or, possibly, chill haze.

Guy

[chris2012]

That's a good point Guy. I should pay more attention to that.

From the mash tun and boiler I think both are reasonably cloudy.

I will try re-circing the wort in the tun next time. I did re-circ the wort in the boiler though, but it did still come out pretty cloudy.

I haven't had much success with irish moss in the boiler before either.

[tourer]

chris i have the same similar problem i'm considering using a filter. I went away for 2 weeks i had a brew chilling down to 1c while was away. bottled it but it's still not clear in the bottle. As for checking clarity when the wort exit's the boiler it's not clear as i have bottom draining boiler. I do use irish Moss and a gelatine concotion. I believe it's protien but i could talking out of my arse. This brew was made using my homegrown hops i did use quite a lot at 60 minutes bad idea should've bunged them in at 15 minutes the bittering is a bit excessive i mention this, thinking was it the hops causing the haze??? It's a nice drink until the hops hit the back of my throat. The haze is worse when i bung a bottle in the fridge. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[chris2012]

Interesting tourer. I'm very confused as to why gelatine and keiselsol isn't removing it for me, as from what i understand gelatine can attract yeast, while keiselsol can attract protein, so it's all very odd imo. But yeah, maybe hop haze wouldn't be removed by either of those I don't know? I'll look into hop haze now.

tourer - " The haze is worse when i bung a bottle in the fridge. " -- do you mean it gets worse when the beer is cold, that could be chill haze couldnt it, which afaik gelatine is supposed to help with.

I'll be sure to post some pics from that filter I ordered.

Edit: Just wondering, can you get hop haze if you don't dry hop?

https://draymans.com/the-role-of-polyph ... formation/ is very interesting

Particularly:

"Stop sparge when SG drops to 1008 to 1010 and pH drops to 5.5. or you run the risk of extracting tannins that will give your beer an astringent flavour and which will increase the risk of hazes."

As I know I oversparged on this batch, as I collected more wort than I should have.

[IPA]

Chris2012 said "In the last brew, possibly I used liquid yeast for around a wort of 1.040 if I recall correctly. Which I think is ok, without a starter."

RULE NUMBER ONE

Brewing logs are essential! If you don't do them you can never correct your mistakes.

[orlando]

Interesting tourer. I'm very confused as to why gelatine and keiselsol isn't removing it for me, as from what i understand gelatine can attract yeast, while keiselsol can attract protein, so it's all very odd imo. But yeah, maybe hop haze wouldn't be removed by either of those I don't know? I'll look into hop haze now.

tourer - " The haze is worse when i bung a bottle in the fridge. " -- do you mean it gets worse when the beer is cold, that could be chill haze couldnt it, which afaik gelatine is supposed to help with.

I'll be sure to post some pics from that filter I ordered.

Edit: Just wondering, can you get hop haze if you don't dry hop?

https://draymans.com/the-role-of-polyph ... formation/ is very interesting

Particularly:

"Stop sparge when SG drops to 1008 to 1010 and pH drops to 5.5. or you run the risk of extracting tannins that will give your beer an astringent flavour and which will increase the risk of hazes."

As I know I oversparged on this batch, as I collected more wort than I should have.

That article introduces the substantial complexity of the whole process (makes a few claims I would quibble with but on the whole describes the problem well) and the need to address those issues at each stage in order to deal with the entire issue of haze. Filtering is not the answer, attention to process is.

[guypettigrew]

If the wort is cloudy coming out of both the mash tun and the boiler then it's unlikely any sort of post fermentation fining will help it.

Sounds like the problem could well be with the run off from the mash tun. That's one place to start, anyway.

Has this always been a problem or have you recently changed your grain or your equipment? What rate do you run the wort from the mash tun? I aim for between 1/2 and 1 litre a minute, after recirculating about three litres to help settle the grain on the false bottom of the tun. Do you fly or batch sparge?

Anything else you can think of which might prevent your wort from running clear from the tun?

Guy

[Jocky]

Chris2012 said "In the last brew, possibly I used liquid yeast for around a wort of 1.040 if I recall correctly. Which I think is ok, without a starter."

RULE NUMBER ONE

Brewing logs are essential! If you don't do them you can never correct your mistakes.

Out of all the tips that people mention to make a big improvement (e.g. sanitation, temperature control, yeast starters) I'm amazed that brew logs aren't mentioned.

It's probably my #1 tip for anyone that wants to improve their brewing. Buy a note book where you can record notes from every beer - the more detailed the better. Include all the mistakes. It's amazing the insights I've gained having gone back and reviewed my old brew days and either realised process flaws or found stuff scribbled in the margins.

I've been using a ready made brew log for a while: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brewers-Ledger ... s=brew+log

There are plenty out on the web that you can just print off yourself: http://lauterdaybrewers.org/resources/brew-day-sheets/

[Jocky]

There's plenty of potential causes of haze:
- Residual yeast. If your beer is clear a few weeks down the road then that's probably your problem.
- Residual unconverted starch. Make sure that your mash is as complete as possible. Get the temperature and pH in the right zone and don't rush it. You should have mostly clear (with a small amount of particulate matter) wort out of the mash tun.
- Stressed yeast. If the yeast is stressed it will release glycogen, which is similar to starch. Regulate temperatures so it doesn't get too hot/cold and avoid underpitching - one liquid pack might be enough, but you can take that guesswork out of the picture by making a starter 12-24 hours before pitching.
- Calcium deficient wort (rare unless you are brewing with very 'soft' water)
- Oils/lubricants (or dust) from equipment.
- Hop haze
- Chill haze

At room temperature a well made beer that hasn't been dry hopped should be clear. If you're not getting that then your problem is most likely one of the first 5 above.

When it's cold the beer may go hazy - that's chill haze. If you dry hop a clear beer, it also may go hazy - that's hop haze. In my experience both can be corrected with gelatin or isinglass. I'm sure that other finings work too, I've just not used them.

To explain what's happening (and I'm not a scholar in this area, so anyone feel free to correct any inaccuracy) my understanding is thus:

- Hop haze and chill haze are both caused by polyphenols (aka tannins) binding with proteins.
- Every finished beer has both polyphenols and protein in it, it's just a question of whether you have enough to cause a visible haze.

- Hop haze from dry hopping happens because the dry hops are adding additional polyphenols.
- Chill haze is caused by low molecular weight polyphenols, which are only able to bind with protein at lower temperatures. So the beer will be clear at room temperature, but sub 10c will gradually become hazier. Left at a low temperature the bond can become permanent.

Gelatin isn't always 100% effective in my experience - don't expect a double ipa to be sparkling crystal clear at fridge temperatures, but it's unbeatable for ease of use and will get you 95% there.